How do you advance half frame?

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by ChristopherCoy, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. ChristopherCoy

    ChristopherCoy Member

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    I'm going to try and use my Bencini Koroll II today. I've loaded it with film and don't really know how to advance it. The numbers on a 120 roll are for 6x4.5, 6x6, and 6x9. This Koroll is 3x4.5, and there is two advance windows.

    Which do I use because only the 6x6 numbers are visible? Any suggestions?

    That is the 1 in the right window.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. ChristopherCoy

    ChristopherCoy Member

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    Or would you shoot one frame with the "1" in the left window, and one frame with the "1" in the right window?
     
  3. jon koss

    jon koss Subscriber

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    Yes, that is the correct method!

    J

     
  4. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    My hands are precise to align a two 105x70 cms films in 3 seconds. Waste an film with taking notes about how did you advanced the film and your hands will be adjusted to do the same in next few films.

    When I was thinking , I think Christopher is right , measure the two red centers distance and do what he says or similar.

    Is 3x4.5 vertical or horizontal ? Do you need to advance 3 centimeters or other. It changes the game

    Good luck , I think you bought the camera from APUG Sheffield. He sent me an excellent Nettar.

    Umut
     
  5. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    I think Chris has misunderstood that a half frame of 6x9 is 6x4.5, not 3x4.5, the nonimal 6cm is the width of the film and doesn't change regardless of the camera as long as it takes 120 (or 620) so can yield 6x17, 6x14, 6x12, 6x9, 6x8 (Fuji) 6x7. 6x6 and 6x4.5.

    Unless of course the Korrelle takes 127 film and not 120.

    Ian
     
  6. ChristopherCoy

    ChristopherCoy Member

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    The Koroll takes 120 and it shoots 3x4.5cm images. It is vertically 4.5cm. If it were a full frame it would be 6x6, and half of six is three. So if I put the number in the left window first then in the second window, I would get a 6x4.5 frame.

    At least that's what I'm thinking...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2012
  7. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    chris, did your camera come with the frame masks ...
    and do you know how to remove them ?

    great indestructible modern box cameras !

    john
     
  8. ChristopherCoy

    ChristopherCoy Member

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    No it doesn't have extra masks.
     
  9. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    when the camera is open and you are looking at the film gate
    there are 2 rectangles that crop the image and convert it to 1/2 frame
    you just slide them UP / they lift out of the camera ... kind of like little clips.
    it took me forever to figure that out ... careful though, easy to lose and you will never
    find replacements... i believe you use the FIRST window for 6x6 after you remove the masks.

    have fun :smile:
    john
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 24, 2012
  10. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    I guess you think wrong.

    127 is approx 4.5cm vertically, I've just processed 4 films today - so just checked, the previous 127 films I processed were fresh from a Brownie 127 in the early-mid 1960's while at school. If those photo's are of a 127 camera you're thunmb etc is in proportion but that's not the case for a 120 camera.

    Ian
     
  11. Alan W

    Alan W Subscriber

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    I'm trying to figure out how you get 3x4.5 out of 120 film ?
     
  12. ChristopherCoy

    ChristopherCoy Member

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    This is a shot if the back of my Bencini Koroll 24s, also a half frame camera. And that's a 120 take up spool.

    The frame is 4.5cm vertically and 3cm wide. Same as the Koroll II.

    So if I shoot half a frame (3cm), and the another half frame (3cm), and add them together I get a full 6x4.5 frame.

    Am I looking at this incorrectly?

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1353812746.247770.jpg

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1353812760.705877.jpg

    ImageUploadedByTapatalk1353812773.354455.jpg
     
  13. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    It looks to me that the 3 x 4.5cm framing would only be available with 127 film.

    I bet that that centre film gate comes out.

    If so, there should be both that gate and adapters for the feed and takeup sides to permit you to switch between 127 and 120 film.
     
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  15. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    I agree with Matt, 120 would overlap the film gate with a pretty big gap (front to back). It seems like focus would be a problem. Is the pressure plate flat, is it 6 cm top to bottom?
     
  16. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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  17. MFstooges

    MFstooges Member

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    It wastes 1.50 cm of film vertical dimension?
     
  18. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    It won't hold 120 film very flat, it does look as if it's a dual format camera to use 120 full 6x6 with that plate removed or 127 with it. But the manual clearly shows it's designed to just use 3/4 of the films width which seems to be quite poor design.

    Ian
     
  19. Alan W

    Alan W Subscriber

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  20. AgX

    AgX Member

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  21. ChristopherCoy

    ChristopherCoy Member

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    I'm confused. I measured the window, the manual and camerapedia link clearly state it's for 120 film, and that it takes 3x4.5cm frames.... And you still say it won't work as designed?

    I usually look up to most of you for information, but y'all seem to be so against the fact that this size frame just isn't possible. What is it about this camera that makes y'all think it's wrong, or I'm wrong or whatever?

    All I really wanted to know was how to advance it to get properly spaced negatives.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2012
  22. AgX

    AgX Member

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    The rebate guides are even wider as with standard cameras for type 120, which would enhance film flateness.
     
  23. Alan W

    Alan W Subscriber

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    I don't think you're wrong or anything,I'm just amazed that a camera would take the supposed benefit of 120 film,a 6 cm side,and shorten it,while still using 120 film.Seems like it would be easier to use another format.Having said that,I'm fascinated by strange old cameras myself-Good Luck!
     
  24. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    One body design was used for 35mm, 127, and 120 film to cut production costs.
     
  25. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    sure there is a little extra room between the frames, who cares ?
     
  26. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Camerapedia does not hint at type 127. There is one type 135 and three type 120 cameras.
    All have different bodies.

    I assume the idea two produce as alternative to 6x6, 3.5x4 and not 4.5x6 cameras was just to get more frames on an easy to access film.

    The price per frame would be the lowest of all type 120 variations. I don't guess that frame size, regarding quality, was that much an issue for that range of cameras.

    With 6x6 and smaller negatives would have to enlarged anyway, so the cost regarding frame/film would only be part of the story, with the alternative of type 127 film in mind.
    So it falls down on many exposures on easy to access film.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 25, 2012