How do you mix Platinum and Palladium Toner?

Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by Jim Moore, Feb 16, 2006.

  1. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Member

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    I want to make sure that I get this correct before I mix this stuff up.

    Citric acid 5g
    Potassium chloroplatinite 20% solution 5ml
    OR Sodium chloropalladite 20% solution 5ml
    Water 1000ml



    Would the mixture for the Potassium chloroplatinite be:
    2 grams Platinum (II) Chloride - Formula PtC12 to 100ml water

    And the mixture for Sodium chloropalladite be:
    2 grams Palladium (II) Chloride - Formula PdC12 to 100ml water

    This stuff is a little to expensive to screw this up :tongue:

    Thanks!!!

    Jim
     
  2. Brook

    Brook Member

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    I mix a 1% solution of the metals and a 5% citric acid solution, and mix immediatly prior to use. In my case this means 5ml of the metal, 5ml of the citric, and 40ml distilled H2O for an 8x10 image on 11x14 paper in a 11x14 flat bottem tray. This is for toning kallitypes.

    I was a bit afraid to mix the acid and metals togather in larger quantities for the same reason, too expensive to screw up.
     
  3. scootermm

    scootermm Subscriber

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    Jim heres how I do it... and it has worked quite well.
    1000ml of distilled water (the tap water here in Austin seemed to have a negative impact on the effectiveness of the toning)
    10grams of Citric acid.
    then 10 DROPS (not ML) of platinum.
    That would solidly tone a 7x17 Van Dyke Brown Print in about 15-20mins

    then to make successive toned prints I would just add an additional 10 drops of pt to the mixture. The citric acid seemingly held its properties for usually 4 tonings of 7x17s.

    When toning 4x5s, 5x7s, I could easily tone 2-3 of each in the above mixture.

    when toning 8x10s I did the same thing but used 8 drops of pt for each. likely a bit much but it worked.

    If I remember correctly, 10drops = 1ml roughly of solution.

    Hopefully Sandy will find this and post because he was of extensive help to me in figuring out the above.

    The above quantities seemed to work as well when toning in gold and palladium.
    Very unique and differing results with each metal toning.
     
  4. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Member

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    Thanks for the response guys.

    So would the 10 DROPS (not ML) of platinum be from the 20% (2 grams Platinum (II) Chloride - Formula PtC12 to 100ml water?) solution or from a different percentage?

    Thanks again!

    Jim
     
  5. scootermm

    scootermm Subscriber

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    from the 20% sol.

    It works and seemed like a much more economical approach than making a stock bulk solution. Im all about economy for sure.
     
  6. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Member

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    Sweet! Thanks Matt
     
  7. scootermm

    scootermm Subscriber

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    the really interesting thing I learn jim...
    when I would tone one 7x17 with the 10 drops for 20mins. Then Id put another 7x17 VDB in toner bath. even after 20 mins. there seemed to be no discernable difference. SO I deduced, in my finite empirical science mind, that the pt had been completely replaced in the VDB. so it seemed a good economical and effective way to use just enough metal solution without wasting. hope that made sense.
     
  8. Jim Moore

    Jim Moore Member

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    That makes perfect sense Matt.

    Thanks again,

    Jim
     
  9. Brook

    Brook Member

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    My ratios seem to exhaust the pt/pd as well. I use it one shot, saving the old toner in a jug. I have tried to tone waste prints for from the spent toner jug for experiment, and got little or no color change.
     
  10. donbga

    donbga Member

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    Matt,

    I like your approach of mixing minimal amounts of toner. It sounds like it produces repeatable results with a minimum of material.

    However, the volume of 1 drop from a plastic dropper is usually considered to be
    0.05 ml. This will vary some by the barometric pressure, ambient temperature, dropper shape, etc. so consider this to be the accepted average volume.

    Don Bryant
     
  11. EricNeilsen

    EricNeilsen Member

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    Jim, 2 g in a 100 is only 2% not 20%. Are you sure you have the chemical names correct. Potassium Tetracholorplatinite, and Sodium Tertracholorpalladite?

    Where are you buying it?

    Eric
     
  12. EricNeilsen

    EricNeilsen Member

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    It may have been that all the pt was used, but it may have also been a pH issue. There is a pt intensifacation step for PT/PD printing where you use platinic acid and sodium formate. There need to be a precise range for that toner to work. If the pH os too high or low it is a no go. You may wish to try it again but prior to placing your print in the toner directly try a acid bath only, then put it in the toner. With all the buffering that goes into paper and the alkaline level of some water, that may be an issue for you.

    Eric