How I make emulsions and coat paper, film and plates

Discussion in 'Silver Gelatin Based Emulsion Making & Coating' started by Photo Engineer, Mar 5, 2007.

  1. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    In answer to the many requests to see how I do these things, here is a montage of still photos, narrated by Tony Mournian who put this thing all together.

    My thanks Tony.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4q0Ryh9pBE


    This is a simulation of what goes on in my darkroom when I make emulsions and then coat them. It is just a tiny taste of what actually happens and what I teach at the workshops.

    Ron Mowrey
     
  2. Buster6X6

    Buster6X6 Member

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    Very interesting Ron. Do you have drawing or sketch of dimensions for coating blades ?

    Thanks in advance Greg
     
  3. doughowk

    doughowk Subscriber

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    For the coating blades you've designed, is there an approximate max length of paper you can do in one run (capacity of trough holding the liquid emulsion)?
     
  4. ben-s

    ben-s Member

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    Very Interesting - Thanks Ron
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The 8" blade will hold 50 ml of emulsion. This is enough to coat a carbon sheet with a huge laydown. I forget the entire amount. I think it is close to a 100 mil gap.

    I have coated up to 13" wide, but with lots of defects with a 5 and 7 mil gap. I have coated 11" with few defects, so I'm having the 13" blade resurfaced and re-leveled to eliminate some problems I found during testing. I have a 16" blade but have not tested it yet due to time constraints.

    As for length of coating, that is limited only to your reach. I can coat longer than 12" as is, but standing on a stool and extending my reach I can coat over 20" or more. If the paper is moved continuously, and the solution is added, this will coat any desired length of paper or film that you can handle. After all, a similar method was used originally to manufacture film and paper.

    The blades are being sold at cost plus a pro-rated amount for prototypes at the present time. I will publish the drawings when I recover the cost of the blades currently made plus the development costs. Then I will exit this business and leave it to the moguls.

    I made about 20 blades for my classes and to sell (10 for each). I have about 7 prototypes including the film and plate blades which are of a different design. So, it is a total of about 27 blades cost divided up into 20 blades. Each blade has about 1/7 the amount of development included in the cost.

    I cover this and demonstrate much of it in the workshop. After all, part of emulsion making is the ability to get high quality coatings. If you want to, you can always use a brush or spray gun.

    PE
     
  6. Tupi-Guarani

    Tupi-Guarani Member

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    I'm working now with a silver halide "parent" composition, Photopolymers for holography, the coating procedures are amazing similar, no doubt can be adapted to photopolymer production, any chance to buy it off the workshop?

    See: www.polygrama.com

    Thank you.

    Sergio.
     
  7. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Not sure what you mean with this. You can buy the chemicals and blades there right now.

    PE
     
  8. Dave Wooten

    Dave Wooten Subscriber

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    Very interesting, well done, thanks for sharing...1st class narrator btw!
     
  9. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Thats Tony. He should be an announcer on TV.

    PE
     
  10. CRhymer

    CRhymer Subscriber

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    Gelatin source

    Hello PE,

    Great video! I have searched APUG and found a lot of useful discussion about which type of gelatin is suitable for emulsion making. I have not been able to find a recommendation or source of supply (pardon me if I missed the obvious). Since shipping is always an issue to my remote location - the North of Canada, I usually buy in bulk for supplies that are stable. Please advise, or PM me if you would rather not respond on list.

    Cheers,
    Clarence
     
  11. Curt

    Curt Subscriber

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    Ron, can I buy the materials to make Panatomic-X and Azo paper?
     
  12. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The Formulary sells photo grade gelatin, but I'm working on other sources.

    Rousselot is willing to sell, and Kodak is 'coming around'.

    Stay tuned.

    PE
     
  13. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    An Azo like paper, yes. PX, IDK.

    See the review by Alex Hawley for an independant review.

    PE
     
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  15. Tim Boehm

    Tim Boehm Subscriber

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    PE, do you have a workshop schedule for 2008 yet?
     
  16. Photo Engineer

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    Tim, I have no 2008 schedule as yet for workshops. I have so many commitments right now that I can barely keep up with 'research'. I'm sorry I cannot help you.

    PE
     
  17. JOSarff

    JOSarff Member

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    polycontrast paper

    Has anyone attempted to coat an ortho emulsion on paper then use pokycontrat filters, or a colorhear, to print?
     
  18. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    It will not work. You need to have two emulsions with different characteristics and different sensitivities. There are several articles on the internet, including on the Ilford site, that describe how this works.

    PE
     
  19. craicfein

    craicfein Member

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    Hand coating with a blade seems ridiculously difficult to me. A ceramic analox roller, as used in flexography with a doctor blade would be so much easier and more precise. Well just read your post from new years day last year ... I'm not slow to understand, just fast at misunderstanding.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 20, 2008
  20. Kirk Keyes

    Kirk Keyes Member

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    Interesting idea - how thick of a coating can they put down? And they look to cost about 10 times more than PE's coating blade.
     
  21. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The ceramic material must be glazed, and insenstive to acid and base. It must have no heavy metal (pigment) content.

    PE
     
  22. craicfein

    craicfein Member

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    Anolox rollers are very expensive, you would use the anolox to transfer the emulsion to a rubber roller which would coat the material. I think you would have to forget about the doctor blade and go with a rubber nip roller. I am thinking about a machine similar to the ones used in newspapers to coat wax onto the back of paper film used in hot wax paste up. I have used a #60 anolox roller for flood coating paper and they lay down a very heavy coating. For UV coating labels (dog food, soup etc.) I would usually go with a #100, #120,or #200. You can even get a really good lay down with a #400, the higher the number the smaller the amount of liquid transfered. Using a doctor blade would definitely add metals to the process as metal doctor blades will be worn down by ceramic anolox rollers. I have seen teflon blades used but those are more of a system and are very expensive.
     
  23. JMC1969

    JMC1969 Subscriber

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  24. panastasia

    panastasia Member

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    Search: Ron Mowrey
     
  25. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Youtube has apparently rearranged their entire setup. The site will redirect you in some cases and in others will fail utterly. I have recently lost all of my youtube references.

    Sorry.

    PE
     
  26. JMC1969

    JMC1969 Subscriber

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    That's a bummer. If I find it, maybe I can repost. I will try the search of the name