How important is to pre wash film before develop it?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by marciofs, Jun 4, 2013.

  1. marciofs

    marciofs Member

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    Is the pre wash just to make the film at the same temperature of the developer before developing? Or is it also important to take out the film chemistry residues before developing?

    I developed a couple of time without soaking the in to water and I didn't notice any difference.
     
  2. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    It's not recommended by Ilford, it's not necessary.

    Some like to pre-wash, others don't, it can help with rotary processing.

    Ian
     
  3. David Allen

    David Allen Member

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    For every photographer you ask, you will get a different answer about pre-washing.

    I use a pre-wash for two reasons:

    I use a (re-usable) two-bath developer and I do not like Bath A becoming full of the dye.

    A long time ago I had some problems with uneven development (streaking on 35mm film) and pre-soaking solved this.

    Whenever, a friend who does not pre-soak comes to me with streaking or other development problem, I always recommend pre-washing and this always solves the problem.

    Bests,

    David
    www.dsallen.de
     
  4. Newt_on_Swings

    Newt_on_Swings Member

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    I don't do a prewash, but I did try it in the past.

    For the people who routinely use a prewash, do you find that since the film has absorbed water from that step, instead of developer, does the development slow and do you compensate with more time, higher temp, or more concentrated developer? Would that bit of water from carry over in the film, and probably a little bit in the tank/reels affect your development in other words?
     
  5. Jim Taylor

    Jim Taylor Member

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    I use a pre-wash to solve streaking issues as above, and also to equilibrate developer and film temperature. I've never modified my dev time/conc and I haven't noticed any ill effects...

    :smile:
     
  6. Terry Christian

    Terry Christian Subscriber

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    As Ian said above, some do a pre-wash, some don't. It washes off the anti-halation dye and I find that it promotes more even development, especially with sheet film. I do it, but if I happen to forget it, I don't worry about it too much. And no, you don't have to compensate for anything in development. If there's any real difference in the film either way, it isn't enough to be concerned about.
     
  7. R.Gould

    R.Gould Member

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    In more years than I care to remember, and over what must be thousands of films over the years, I have never pre washed my films, I have never seen the need,it is not nessary,
    Richard
     
  8. doughowk

    doughowk Subscriber

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    If using 2 bath or divided developer, a pre-soak is not recommended (see Anchell). I rotary process all sheet film , and find a pre-soak helpful for one shot developers.
     
  9. bvy

    bvy Subscriber

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    I prewash lith film as I was regularly getting streaks and uneven development. But I develop this by safelight in trays. And I recently introduced a prewash to my C-41 processing. But regular black and white film -- no.
     
  10. Michael R 1974

    Michael R 1974 Subscriber

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    While neither Kodak or Ilford say a pre-wash is necessary with their normal films/developers and normal tank procedures, there are some exceptions and cases where it can help:

    1. If it takes long to fill the tank (large tank, or small tank with slow-filling lid). Photo Engineer makes the point that unless the film is uniformly/quickly immersed in the developer, you can potentially get uneven development from splashes etc as you fill the tank if the film is dry. Problems with uneven development tend to occur at the beginning of development.

    2. When minimal-agitation or stand/semi-stand procedures are used, a pre-soak is generally recommended

    3. When developing times are very short, a pre-soak is generally recommended to help ensure uniformity

    4. When developing sheet film (multiple sheets) in a tray by hand shuffling, a pre-soak is necessary to prevent dry sheets from sticking together

    5. When using a film or developer or process for which a pre-soak is specifically recommended by the manufacturer

    6. In general, if uneven development is a persistent problem, try adding a pre-soak to the process, which may or may not help
     
  11. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    i pre-wash only out of habit, some habits are hard to break.
    when i tray process, one thing i do after i finish developing is pour the pre wash tray
    INTO the developer tray, and the dark dye magically disappears.

    yeah, i get pretty bored sometimes.
     
  12. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    I've noticed the same effect when I drain the (one shot) developer from my Jobo into the holding pan that has the dye laden pre-wash water in it.

    As others above, I do and do not. I do prewash with my Jobo. It's recommended by Jobo for rotary processing a few reasons. I also use Diafine for roll film sometimes in regular tanks and do not, as the maker of Diafine recommends against it. When I develop 4x5 in deep tanks with hangers, sometimes I have and sometimes I haven't and I really can't say as I could tell any difference.
     
  13. marciofs

    marciofs Member

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    I think I will continuous pre washing my films then.
    Thank you.
     
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  15. tron_

    tron_ Member

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    Just my $0.02 but I always pre-wash all my film wether it be color or B&W to get rid of the anti-halation layer. I think it's more important with my C-41 film since development times are so short (usually 3m30s) that a pre-wash helps promote more even development.

    That plus I like seeing the pretty colors the dye makes the water :tongue:
     
  16. marciofs

    marciofs Member

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    Me too.
    I don't know why. lol
     
  17. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    I agree with Christian

    I find it does some times promote even development. I think film avoids dry patches and bubbles in the developer. Also with some film, it may be a good idea to pre-wash with heavy dyes in the anti-halation layer. Especially with Foma film and Arista EDU. My developer is a blue-green. I don't think it will cause any harm.
     
  18. Jeff Kubach

    Jeff Kubach Member

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    I've tried both and can't tell the difference.

    Jeff
     
  19. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    I pre-wash - it keeps my replenished developer from changing colour.:D

    More importantly, it is part of my routine now, and I depend on the repeat-ability of my routine.
     
  20. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    The dyes that some people seem overly concerned about are chosen because they have no effect on development. Pre-washing is not necessary unless you choose to use a very short, < 5 min, developing time. With short times they may be a chance of streaking.

    In 60 years of developing film I have never pre-washed and have never experienced any problems. I use Nikor style tanks. With larger tanks greater than 2 35 mm reels I use a lift rod and simply place the reels into the tank filled with developer.

    With pre-wash (pre-soak) you may need to extend developing times slightly. The manufacturers of Diafine are very specific about NOT pre-soaking.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 4, 2013
  21. Bruce Osgood

    Bruce Osgood Membership Council Council

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    I too use a Jobo for rotary processing 4X5 sheet film and always pre rinsed until I started using Xtol and Delta 100 film.

    Jobo has backed off their position of pre washing films developed in Xtol:

    http://photo.net/bboard/uploaded-file?bboard_upload_id=21963784

    A prewetting of the film is not recommended but a pre temperaturing of the tank and dry contents is recommended. It all comes down to there is no absolute single answer for this either.
     
  22. seadrive

    seadrive Member

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    When developing roll film, I use a pre-wash to get my film/tank to the desired temp for development. If it's 80 deg F in the room, I'll use a one-minute pre-soak at 65 degrees. The closer the room temp is to 68F, the closer my pre-wash is to 68F.

    It's part of my routine. However it affects my development time, it's been factored in.
     
  23. rjbuzzclick

    rjbuzzclick Member

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    I normally don't pre-wash, but have started to do it with 4x5 Fomapan 100. I was getting occasional pinholes in the emulsion (I was already using water instead of stop bath), and pre-washing has seemed to mitigate the problem.
     
  24. grahamp

    grahamp Subscriber

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    I used to pre-wash with the Jobo when I was using a one-shot developer. Not because of the anti-halation dye but because it helps stabilize the tank temperature and evens out the initial flood of developer. Now that I am using a two bath developer, I don't bother. The first bath is low activity, and the temperature does not fluctuate that much.

    I never pre-washed with manual tanks. Unless you have a very short developing time, I don't see the benefit as a universal practice. It might help with temperature adjustment.
     
  25. emjo

    emjo Subscriber

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    I always prewash with C-41, mostly to get the film and tank to the correct temperature. For B/W I like dev times of around 10-20 minutes and assume there is ample amounts of time for the film to get evenly wet.
     
  26. cliveh

    cliveh Subscriber

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    I have never pre-washed a film and can't see the point. If anything, I would suggest that a pre-wash delays the ingress of developer into the emulsion and may effect development times.