How long developinf fiber paper?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by naaldvoerder, Apr 9, 2004.

  1. naaldvoerder

    naaldvoerder Member

    Messages:
    654
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Hi forum,

    Some printers cleam that FB paper should be developed for a full 5 minutes instead of the usual 2 minutes in f or instance ilford PQ. What is your experiance on that?

    JJ
     
  2. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

    Messages:
    6,242
    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I don't share the experience of these printers that you mention.
     
  3. Annemarieke

    Annemarieke Member

    Messages:
    747
    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Location:
    near Amsterd
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I develop my FB papers for 2 minutes, and that seems to work fine.
     
  4. Les McLean

    Les McLean Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,609
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2002
    Location:
    Northern Eng
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    My normal time is 3 minutes but I do develop fibre papers for up to 10 minutes to achieve a particular effect. I also reduce development to as little as 45 seconds to reduce contrast and produce a warmer print colour. Clearly, both procedures are carried out in conjunction with adjusted exposure times.
     
  5. Deckled Edge

    Deckled Edge Member

    Messages:
    446
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2004
    Location:
    Manhattan Be
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    This kind of latitude demonstrates what is POSSIBLE, not what is generally necessary. For years I developed for 3 minutes in Dektol, and I only use fiber paper. After some experimentation I determined that 2 minutes gave no less acceptable results. For the last 10 years I have used Dektol exclusively, and I soup for 2 minutes at 68 F. Now that I use variable contrast papers, I let the filters, not the development, determine contrast. Tray size, volume of developer and agitation have all been standardized, so the only surprises come from my errors in technique!
     
  6. victor

    victor Member

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2004
    Location:
    israel
    papers have a differant behaviour in the stream of time in the different developers. my suggestion is:
    -work with the paper applaying more or less the manufacturers recomendation. this is good for biggining, and also it works the best most of the time for the general use. the consistancy is very important, and the creativity etc can be achived in filtration with the mc/mg papers.
    -take testes. look very carefully what happens to the paper while in the developer. first, base the testing on the normal developing time - as u would expose the paper for the 2 min developing. for example - the agfa mcc papers will give u in bromophen or pq a very low contrast image in about 30sec, and from this point it will continue to build up contrast and density. at about 1.30min the high lights also starting to take density a bit without the loss of over contrast. ilford mg5 for exaple will start showing image at about 45sec while building the density and contrast fast at the blacks and after the 1.30min the high keys will take some density as well. at the mid-time of the development the agfas has more uniform development at most tone values, while the ilford builds first the density of the lower tones.

    whatching at this process u can start playing with exposure values and timings, and step by step understand both the nature of combination . paper/exposure/developer/time and of course - at the end evaluating the effect of the processes on the dry print - overall apearance, contrast, hue, the quality in which the fine details from the negative recorded etc.
    in tetsting it is important to be consistent with all the things and playing with one aspect of the process at each time.
     
  7. mobtown_4x5

    mobtown_4x5 Member

    Messages:
    244
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Location:
    Baltimore
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I have also standardized on 2 min.

    However, I have achieved some interesting effects with gross over/under exposure combined with gross under/over development respectively.

    I call the two techniques "bake -n- dip" and "flash-n-soak", :wink:
     
  8. Annemarieke

    Annemarieke Member

    Messages:
    747
    Joined:
    May 27, 2003
    Location:
    near Amsterd
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    That is sort of what you do when lith printing, but you do it in 'normal' developer?
     
  9. skahde

    skahde Member

    Messages:
    427
    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2004
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Test it: Take a strip of paper cover half of it. Expose it for maximum black, by turning the lights on for a few seconds.
    Cut that strip in smaller pieces including the exposed as well as the unexposed part. Develop the parts for 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 minutes. Examine when wet: Which one reaches maximum black? Examine when dry: Any fogging?

    Keep your time above the time for maximum black and well (!) below the value were fogging sets in. If fogging is a concern you better expose for three values, unexposed, light gray, maximum black.

    best

    Stefan
     
  10. naaldvoerder

    naaldvoerder Member

    Messages:
    654
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Tim Rudman desribes a 'optimum development window", determent by test like you describe, Stefan. Do you think that fogging is likely to occur in f.e. 5 minutes.
     
  11. FrankB

    FrankB Member

    Messages:
    2,147
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Location:
    Northwest UK
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I tend to follow the manufacturer's recommendation unless I have a really good reason not to. I reckon they know their products a damn sight better than I do...!

    More experienced photographers / printers work out their own variations over time. I hope (one day) to do the same,
     
  12. mobtown_4x5

    mobtown_4x5 Member

    Messages:
    244
    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2004
    Location:
    Baltimore
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Annemarieke,

    yes normal dektol (or I really like a product called "Ultra black", not sure if available in Europe)..

    try it- the "bake-n-dip" sometimes is interesting for "high-key" images, increase paper exposure time approx. 200%, develop 5-10 sec in dektol- quick to stop bath!

    However, this is something SILLY :roll: I do only in an experimental sense looking for special effects, as I said for most work I have standardized on 2 min.

    Matt
     
  13. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    9,281
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Location:
    Bergen, Norw
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Another - slightly safer - way is to dilute the developer more. Instead of "dipping", "soak" it in developer diluted to 10-20% of normal strength. With most developers this reduces contrast, and many will give warmer tones.