How to "clean" a rolleiflex shutter

Discussion in 'Camera Building, Repairs & Modification' started by Rom, Jul 23, 2012.

  1. Rom

    Rom Member

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Location:
    Lyon - Franc
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Dear all,

    I am coming to you to know if somes of you has got experience in cleaning a rolleiflex shutter in essence-c. (Sorry, i know that we call it "degommage" in french but i don't have any idea of the english word.

    I have the opportunity to buy a rolleiflex tessar with pretty clean lens. The only thing is that the shutter needs to be clean. The seller ask for 150€ which seems very correct for one of my camera dream...

    The only thing is to know if it can be done by myself.

    Thanks for feedback :smile:
     
  2. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

    Messages:
    9,068
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Location:
    Ryde, Isle o
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Solvent cleaner?


    Steve.
     
  3. ruilourosa

    ruilourosa Member

    Messages:
    327
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2003
    Location:
    Portugal
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    bezine!! or take it to a watch repair man
     
  4. Paul Goutiere

    Paul Goutiere Subscriber

    Messages:
    625
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Location:
    Canmore Ab C
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    If the camera is a "Rolleiflex T" you may find it difficult to take apart and put back together, others are not so bad.

    Cleaning the shutter properly requires complete disassembly, cleaning in benzine or lighter fluid, careful lubrication, reassembly and calibration.

    I would have a person like Harry Fleenor harry@rolleirepairs.com in the US do it.


    Si l'appareil est un «Rolleiflex T" vous trouverez peut-être difficile à démonter et à remonter, d'autres ne sont pas si mauvais.

    Nettoyage de l'obturateur nécessite bien un démontage complet, nettoyage dans la benzine ou essence à briquet, la lubrification attention, le remontage et l'étalonnage.

    Je voudrais avoir une personne comme Harry Fleenor harry@rolleirepairs.com aux États-Unis de le faire.

    ( courtesy Google Translate )
     
  5. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

    Messages:
    6,740
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Please pay attention to Paul. It is not exactly a DIY effort if you want to be assured a usable camera. Other option includes: http://www.procamera.net/
     
  6. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

    Messages:
    3,921
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Location:
    Adirondacks
    Shooter:
    Multi Format

    No. The fact that you had to ask the question means you are not qualified to do this work. Send it to an expert.

    And don't pay attention to the bricoleurs who will tell you otherwise.
     
  7. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

    Messages:
    9,068
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Location:
    Ryde, Isle o
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    You don't need to be qualified. Competence will be fine.


    Steve.
     
  8. Paul Goutiere

    Paul Goutiere Subscriber

    Messages:
    625
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Location:
    Canmore Ab C
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Most Rolleiflex cameras, in good condition are worth owning. They will give you years of trouble free service and are easily sold if you decide you don't like the camera.

    I have a Rolleiflex Automat from 1954 overhauled by Harry Fleenor. He installed a Maxwell screen to replace the original and did a fine job on the shutter.

    There are others who are capable of fine work as well. I think someone who has spare parts, essential tools and has overhauled thousands of cameras in his career
    is likely better qualified to do a good job than someone like myself, who has not.

    La plupart des appareils Rolleiflex, en bon état sont une valeur de posséder. Ils vous donneront des années de service sans problème et sont facilement vendus si vous décidez que vous n'aimez pas la caméra.

    J'ai un Rolleiflex Automat à partir de 1954 révisé par Harry Fleenor. Il a installé un écran Maxwell pour remplacer l'original et fait un excellent travail sur le volet.

    Il ya d'autres qui sont capables d'un travail minutieux aussi bien. Je pense que quelqu'un qui a des pièces de rechange, des outils essentiels et a révisé des milliers de caméras dans sa carrière
    est susceptible de mieux qualifié pour faire un bon travail de quelqu'un comme moi, qui n'a pas.

    ( courtesy Google Translate )
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2012
  9. Rom

    Rom Member

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2010
    Location:
    Lyon - Franc
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks to all for your input really appreciated.

    I agree it seems difficult to achieve, but i agree with Steeve too. Competence is fine. For sure i don't have the qualification but perhaps i can succeed.

    I want to do it by myself because it's not only a task to do, it's because i am interesting in doing it...

    For your information, i found a very interesting link with a repair manual here

    First of all, i have to get the deal now.

    Thanks to all of you :smile:
     
  10. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

    Messages:
    9,068
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Location:
    Ryde, Isle o
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I approach these things with an attitude that if someone else can do something, then I should be able to as well. These cameras were put together by humans so an intelligent human should be able to take it apart, clean and lubricate it and put it back together again.


    Steve.
     
  11. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

    Messages:
    6,740
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    So one more thought. If you do it yourself, competence is the key... and one key to being competent is knowing what you are doing. Procure the proper factory repair manual and study it before opening the shutter. I do not know which exact shutter you are dealing with but Compur repair manuals can be found easily. The manual contains valuable information which you cannot get by other means.
     
  12. Paul Goutiere

    Paul Goutiere Subscriber

    Messages:
    625
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2006
    Location:
    Canmore Ab C
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I approach things in the same way. I have done service on quite a few cameras myself, and it can be an enjoyable process.
    I was a service tech for part of my life, worked on typewriters (!), mechanical calculators, seismic equipment, projectors, movie cameras, audio gear and all manner of weird and wonderful gadgets.

    Having spent time as a tech, I see the value in experience, particularly when it comes to working on something like a Rolleiflex, which as you would agree isn't all that complex a device, but when someone has spent a better part of a lifetime devoted to one device, like a Rolleiflex, he/she will gain all manner of insight.

    Sometimes we may defer..
     
  13. Leigh B

    Leigh B Member

    Messages:
    1,061
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Location:
    Maryland, US
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Sorry, Steve. Wrongo Mucho!

    Qualified includes having the proper training, tools, lubricants, cleaning equipment, alignment jigs and fixtures, etc.

    Being competent without any other qualifications is sufficient for making babies, but nothing else.

    I am a professionally-trained camera repair tech. I worked as a repair tech full-time for four years,
    with experience servicing Rollei's and Compur Shutters. I would definitely not suggest that anyone
    try same without proper training, equipment, and documentation.

    I still have a fully-equipped camera repair shop, including a huge inventory of replacement parts.

    - Leigh
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2012
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

    Messages:
    6,740
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The first two statements you make make you very different from some people who yearn to (a) learn trade of camera repair, or (b) save some money by DIY. Without that kind of background it is often more prudent to defer.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2012
  16. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

    Messages:
    6,740
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    p.s. Some people, with decent tools and information, might actually be able to DIY properly the first time. The stories abound, however, of those who tried but could not complete the task. I suspect that there are even more failure stories that we simply never hear about.

    Everybody needs to assess their own skills, committment, and risk tolerance.
     
  17. Leigh B

    Leigh B Member

    Messages:
    1,061
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2011
    Location:
    Maryland, US
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi Brian,

    My comments are addressed specifically at the OP's question about servicing a Rollei.

    In order to do the Rollei shutter you must completely disassemble the camera, then completely disassemble
    the Compur shutter. That's made more difficult because of its small size as compared with an LF Compur.

    The shutter parts must be cleaned in an ultrasonic cleaner, then re-assembled with application of the correct lubricants
    in the proper locations and quantities. Compur service manuals have VERY specific lubrication instructions.

    Most DIYers would not have the proper lubricants to start with, nor know where to put them (lack of documentation),
    nor know what quantities are appropriate for what locations.

    Once the shutter is back together and working properly you must re-assemble the entire camera.

    DIYers can usually fix an el-cheapo focal-plane shutter camera from the 50's.
    I would not bet any money (even at 100:1) on amateur repair of a Rolle.

    - Leigh
     
  18. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

    Messages:
    6,740
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yes, Leigh. I understood that. My comments, too, were addressed specifically to the OP about DIY servicing of his Rollei.

    It is his camera and his choice.
     
  19. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

    Messages:
    6,740
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    p.s. I mentioned the importance of the Compur service manual in an earlier post, and assumed that if anyone reads it they would figure out that lubrication is very carefully specified. I agree with most of what you say... we could argue about ultrasonic cleaners vs other cleaning methods till the cows come home, but let's not. :smile:
     
  20. paul ron

    paul ron Member

    Messages:
    1,896
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Location:
    NYC
    Shooter:
    Medium Format

    Sounds more like an advertisement to recuit business rather than encouragement. You'd think he was sending a man to the moon. Lighten up, it's only a broken camera.

    Why discourage anyone from trying his hand at this? Anyone can repair a camera, it;'s not that difficult. It takes patience n the gray mater between your ears. Tools, lubes n cleaners are commonly available in hardware stores n online these days. All he needs is the courage n a few good tips from experianced people like you, if you can get over yourself.

    BTW If it's already broken, how much more broken can it get by him doing the work? Worst case, he learned someting, gained some experiance n will give it another try, perhaps do better next time.. the camera will still be broken. No rocket science, no brainer.

    How did you learn or figure out this was for you?... by trying or you went to camera college n earned a PhD?

    I say go for it! Give it your best shot, read the manual, work slow n stay organised. Ask lots of questions when you get stuck n take pictures of your progress as reference points.

    BTW that DIY reapir site you got the manual is a wonderful resource, join n post questions there since those people would rather try than to send it to a pro as many of em are retired repairmen with less of an attitude.


    .
     
  21. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

    Messages:
    6,740
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I was thinking of commenting but will wait for Leigh to post first. Breath deep, Leigh, and count to 10 before hitting the post button!
     
  22. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

    Messages:
    9,068
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Location:
    Ryde, Isle o
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    If people didn't try new things, nothing would ever get done.

    It would be good advice to try to repair a few less valuable cameras first, perhaps a couple of broken folding cameras. Then go on to the Rolleiflex if you feel competent. But most definitely, do not be put off by people who say you can't do it. That just makes me more determined to prove them wrong.


    Steve.
     
  23. Richard S. (rich815)

    Richard S. (rich815) Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,954
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I dreamed of fixing my own Rolleiflexes myself some day. I have a lot of them too. I asked a local repair guy about this who has years of experience working on Rolleiflexes. He started showing me catalogs of the tools I'd need to do it, and to do it right. I got some of the tools and went to work on an old beaten-up Rolleicord I got for $20. Let me put it in the most direct terms I can: I discourage you from doing this! It's NOT easy. And I am a very proficient general repair person and rarely shy away from the odd job here or there.

    It's one thing to get an old beater like I did and give it a shot. It's another to use what the OP decribed as his dream camera to learn on. Get your "dream camera" repaired and done right by a professional. Then go shoot with it and fulfill your dream. If you want to learn how to repair cameras then either research how to do it, get the right tools, and make it happen. Or if you're just curious then get a beater like I did and give it a shot in your spare time with whatever tools you have lyiing around.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2012
  24. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

    Messages:
    3,921
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Location:
    Adirondacks
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    "Competence" is a neccessary "qualification".
     
  25. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

    Messages:
    3,921
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Location:
    Adirondacks
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    See what I mean?:wink:
     
  26. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

    Messages:
    3,921
    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Location:
    Adirondacks
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It's pointless, absolutely pointless, to argue with idiots.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect