How to clean self-timer on Compur Deckel-Munchen?

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by j-dogg, Nov 26, 2013.

  1. j-dogg

    j-dogg Subscriber

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    Wanted to CLA my Compur, it's the old style with the cardboard aperture blades. Self timer, 1 and 2 are a little slow, the timer itself takes minutes to actuate the shutter. How do I clean do I just brush isopropyl alchohol around it or something? I heard you cant submerge them in alcohol because of the aperture but this one I can remove the aperture assembly completely so would it still be safe?
     
  2. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

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    Do yourself a favor and send it to someone who will do a proper job, like Flutot's. Brushing solvent around will just redistribute the dirt, and I can tell you from personal experience that the composite aperture blades are insanely fragile.
     
  3. baachitraka

    baachitraka Member

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    If you do it for the first time, please 'do not' do it. Shutter fix is not that expensive if you give to a pro...
     
  4. Kawaiithulhu

    Kawaiithulhu Member

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    In any case, isopropyl alcohol has a high water content and isn't what you would use. I'd follow the advice to get a CLA done by someone experienced.
     
  5. shutterfinger

    shutterfinger Member

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    Isopropyl Alcohol comes in two versions 70% and 90%. Use the 90% version if available. Water or not it works slowly.
    Search engine Compur Service Manual, there is one on line and it's been linked to on this site several times.
    The shutters in the manual are refinements of the old and the build is similar. I used two different shutters in the manual to service a 1940's shutter, aperture and shutter blades were the same on one shutter and the trimming/ cocking the same on another.
    Flushing a shutter is a stop gap measure to use in a pinch and should be followed up with a full disassembly CLA as soon as possible after flushing to get through the photo shoot.
     
  6. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Deckel warned for flushing parts of Compur shutters coated with low-friction lacquer. So the general advice of flushing all mechanical parts of those shutters should be taken with caution. Furhermore any effective flushing would likely harm the oil and grease installed in those shutters and would make necessary a re-lubrication.

    Whether this lacquer and lubrication issue applies on that self-release section has to be looked up in the repair manual.
     
  7. Kawaiithulhu

    Kawaiithulhu Member

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    http://benoit.suaudeau.perso.neuf.fr/manuels_rep/obturateurs/compur-repair/01-03.html Compur manual for reference.

    I'd suggest denatured alcohol or naptha, both found cheaply at hardware stores and both with no worry over 10% water.

    Shutterfinger's advice is the same as what I've heard elsewhere and I trust it completely.

    In the end shutters like these aren't made anymore and we are the guardians of the last remaining, working examples of a century of mechanical engineering :cool:
     
  8. shutterfinger

    shutterfinger Member

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    Denatured Alcohol strips coatings and dissolves adhesives. DO NOT USE on shutters, may even strip paint on the case.
    Naphtha- key ingredient in the shade tree favorite, lighter fluid. May leave a residue. Questionable.
    Lacquer Thinner- excellent degreaser. Will remove protective coatings and strip paint/lacquer used on shutters. DO NOT USE.
     
  9. j-dogg

    j-dogg Subscriber

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    Success! I decided that while I had the day off work I would do the full CLA. Got everything apart, the whole reason for all of this was one of the screws came out of the bottom of the aperture assembly and was rolling around in the shutter, so I got it out and re-assembled the aperture assembly, holy crap no wonder manufacturers use 6 and 5 blades now, this one has 10 and I had to do it twice because the first time I didn't align the wheel properly with the screw holes. But....I managed to get it together one way or another and re-assembled it, it's cherry now.

    So I got that back together then moved to the shutter, I pulled the blades and gave them a good cleaning. Almost used Isopropyl Alcohol, then read this post :whistling: switched to Naptha....which was recommended on an old Zenit camera I did a CLA on, to clean up the inside. Everything was looking good, I then used an extremely liberal amount of 3 in 1 on both gear drives, probably a drop at best each and worked the shutter a few times. I used this on the Zenit and a Minolta RF I CLA'd as well with much success. I used a small cloth to wipe any excess so it didn't bleed into the shutter assembly. The self-timer works now and all of the speeds are dead nuts accurate. Everything is so smooth this shutter has never been this nice. I would say she is ready for battle again!
     
  10. baachitraka

    baachitraka Member

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    Great!!!
     
  11. BrianShaw

    BrianShaw Member

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    Remember what you did, because if you used "extremely liberal amounts of 3 in 1" you may be going back soon to CLA all over again. Or did you really mean "really conservative amounts..."? Less is more with the oil. :confused:
     
  12. shutterfinger

    shutterfinger Member

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    3in1 is a petroleum blend that migrates and dries to a gummy residue as does its parent company product Water Dispersant #40.
    TriFlow, watch/clock oil, gun oil are best.
    White lithium grease works well anywhere a grease is called for.
    Shutter repair guides instructions for lubrication: Oil-apply a drop and wipe off the excess to leave a light sheen only. Alternative apply oil to felt pad, touch the shaft to be lubed to the felt pad, wipe off the excess leaving a light sheen.
    Grease- apply a dab about the size of a straight pin head or less to the surface where metal parts slide against one another or spring ends slide against the case.

    Congratulations on getting it fixed.

    For those reading this Compur had a special jig for assembling the aperture blades. They lay in place and a breeze that will move a small down feather will displace them as will a slight touch.
     
  13. John Koehrer

    John Koehrer Subscriber

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    What he^^^^said about 3 in 1.
    A proper amount would be a drop from a pinhead. A small one.
     
  14. Kawaiithulhu

    Kawaiithulhu Member

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    Thanks to shutterfinger and everyone else for all the info and corrections, I'm updating my personal CLA setup for the next time I do maintenance.
     
  15. bob01721

    bob01721 Member

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    What he said! Carol at Flutot's will do it properly and inexpensively.
     
  16. j-dogg

    j-dogg Subscriber

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    That's about what I did, I put the oil in an oil dispenser thing used for sewing machines in the 40s with a very fine tip, I put a small screwdriver with the cloth on the end to clean up the excess, it's been very well, except for one thing that happened this weekend.

    It managed to come clean off the camera lens board and all, almost fell into the Keys! But I grabbed it and it was stuck at 1/10.....the wheel was hung up on the apparatus that accepts the shutter cable. That has been cleared and its back to normal operation.

    So far so good!
     
  17. shutterfinger

    shutterfinger Member

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    How do you have it attached? bubble gum? bailing wire? fishing line? tape? forgot to tighten the lock nut?
     
  18. j-dogg

    j-dogg Subscriber

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    Of course! Just my luck......it lasted a good day in the Keys, the whole lensboard and everything fell flat on its face off the camera and onto the dock in Pigeon Key and now 1/50th and 1/100th, actually all speeds but 1/200 jam open sometimes and the cocking mechanism is notchy once in a while. :sad:

    Well that one day was pretty good at least......where do I send it and how much am I looking at :pouty:

    I took the plate off and looked around and can't seem to figure out what is causing this.

    I had tightened the lock nut before loading it but I guess handling it in Pigeon Key (and a 2 mile walk I suppose) loosened it.
     
  19. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

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    Flutot's.
    How much are you looking at? Likely significantly more than if you had left it alone and sent it there in the first place.
     
  20. j-dogg

    j-dogg Subscriber

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    It was fine until I dropped it, CLA'd or not that kind of a drop would have caused that anyway.

    Damn Murphy and his stupid laws, someone needs to find him and make him take a long walk off a short pier
     
  21. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

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    No, 3-in-1 oil is a time delay disaster. Now that has to be removed, too.:wink:

    How on earth did it fall off the camera? What camera/lensboard combo are you using it on?
     
  22. shutterfinger

    shutterfinger Member

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    Private message sent.
     
  23. bob01721

    bob01721 Member

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    Flutot's. Probably under $100.
     
  24. j-dogg

    j-dogg Subscriber

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    Eastman-Kodak 5x7 kit, some sort of lens board, I walked 2 miles on Seven Mile Bridge to Pigeon Key with it and it might have come loose from all of the motion, it was tripod mounted and I carried the entire apparatus to save weight and did like 3 exposures on the island, they looked good on that god-awful d*****l crap :laugh: so the negatives should be fantastic, I'll be sure to post scans or prints after they hit the tanks

    its a restoration I'm doing, I guess I'm a better carpenter and photographer than camera repairman :confused:

    The camera itself has come a long way, hinges were loose light leaks galore, took care of all of it in a day and it's perfect.