How to get large grains in my negs?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by VincentM, May 7, 2009.

  1. VincentM

    VincentM Member

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    Hello,

    I am trying to get larger and coarser grains in my negs format 120 but my actual mix isn't really producing big grains ! I m using mostly 320TXP in HC110 dil H tps dil B x1.5.

    I m going to try underexposing my neg and overdeveloping in HC110 dil B, but maybe you have some tips or recommendations?

    Vincent
     
  2. thefizz

    thefizz Subscriber

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    You could try developing your film in paper developer.

    Peter
     
  3. Jim Noel

    Jim Noel Member

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    you're not likely to get coarse-grained with HC 110 regardless of the dilution.
    you might try Dektol or other print developers.
    There are several other techniques to try, but this will give you a start.
     
  4. Removed Account

    Removed Account Member

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    Get thee some Delta 3200 and soup it in Rodinal, then ye shall find the grain ye seeks!
     
  5. VincentM

    VincentM Member

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    Thanks, Justin have you some examples maybe ?
     
  6. cschweda

    cschweda Member

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    Tri-x, Rodinal 1:50, high temp (75F) for around 15 mins.

    Here's a (very) grainy 35mm shot I took a few days ago with my Holga (adapted for 35mm):

    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3638/3510304552_ab424a4596_o.jpg

    Not the greatest shot -- I know. But I was experiementing with Rodinal in my Jobo processor and was pleased with the grain.
     
  7. Aurum

    Aurum Member

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    C41 colour material with a B&W developer will give grain the size of buckshot, but will be "Interesting" to print with the orange mask and relatively low Dmax.
     
  8. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    hi vincent

    you might process overexposed film in a coffee based developer,
    and mix a little straight paper developer in your brew.
    let stand (no agitation ) for 20mins or so, ... or longer :smile:
     
  9. Anscojohn

    Anscojohn Subscriber

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    Compose inside an area equivalent to the ca. 24 x 36 mm of a 35mm neg; then crop the negative to that when you print.
     
  10. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    I would rate your Tri-X at 25 or 50, develop as normal and see what happens.

    If that is not enough, try doing the same thing, doubling the dilution of your developer, and doubling your developing time.

    If still not enough, take either one, or both of these ideas to even farther extremes. For instance, try exposing at 6 or 12 and/or quadrupling the dilution of your developer and quadrupling your development time.

    If still not enough, try Delta or T-Max 3200 with the same techniques. Note that the grain on these is sharper and more neatly patterned, so it will look different.

    You can most certainly get coarse grain from HC-110, or any other developer. Exposure and developing time will be the most important contributors. However, if still not enough, try Rodinal using the same technique of heavy dilution and long times...or use Dektol or D-19 if you want to highly compress your highlights.

    I'd also invest in some potassium ferricyanide to make some bleach. :D ...and some VC paper.

    There is also the martini or hot developer approach, but IMO these are harder to control.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 7, 2009
  11. KenS

    KenS Member

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    large grain

    Peter, development if film in a paper developer does not necessarily lead to larger grain.

    I recall, and will now have to see if see if I can find, a paper published about 15 or so years ago, where about 4 or 5 different films were developed in Dektol 1:32 for close to 20 minutes at 20°C provided the author good gradation and very fine grain.

    Ken
     
  12. IloveTLRs

    IloveTLRs Member

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    Try vigorous agitation; really shake the tank. I've had luck doing that with HC-110 and Tri-X @400. Whether agitation is the cause or not I'm not absolutely sure, however.
     
  13. BetterSense

    BetterSense Member

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    Like anscojon says, just compose super-wide and crop. It's a simple foolproof geometrical way to increase grain.
     
  14. VincentM

    VincentM Member

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    Thanks you all for the tips.

    I maybe need to understand better what influence grain before trying out things.
    I have been reading some threads about it and it seems that for the developer: high dilution, high temperature, vigorous agitation are somewhat the basis to play with while for films it is over exposition.
    This of course combined with an adequate couple film, developer. Tri-X and Rodinal (1:50, 1:100, ...) are the favorites by many, I ll start with it.

    Did i get correctly ? is there anything I missed?
     
  15. Bruce Watson

    Bruce Watson Member

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    You do probably want to gain a better understanding before you spend a lot of time doing this. I suggest finding a copy of Anchell and Troop's The Film Development Cookbook. I think version 3 is out now. This will tell you much about films, developers, and techniques to use to create the graininess you want.

    The biggest factor in graininess is the film itself. Use the highest speed film you can get. Next is developer. A solvent developer like HC-110 is designed to give you small grain. You'll want to switch to an acutance developer. Then, graininess is directly related to density. So over expose and over develop. The resulting dense negative will take longer to print, but is perfectly printable (if you don't over do it of course) -- just with more grain then usual.

    Interestingly, agitation has no direct effect on graininess. I think this myth comes about because increasing agitation without compensating for the resulting increase in density by shortening development time, does increase graininess. But it's the increase in density that does it -- not the agitation itself. Nit picking? Maybe. But it's important to understand what is causing the effects you are seeing if you want to control those effects.
     
  16. RobertV

    RobertV Member

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    Even in medium format Fomapan 400 E.I. 400 in Rodinal 1+50 with a lot of agitation will give you enough regular grain where you can further dream this comming night from.

    Therefore Fomapan 400 + Rodinal is not filled in our data-sheet.

    Best regards,

    Robert
     
  17. VincentM

    VincentM Member

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    Thanks Bruce, nice and useful expanation
     
  18. fschifano

    fschifano Member

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    Nope, I don't think you're nit picking at all. In fact, I think you've made it quite clear to some folks who apparently don't get the whole concept of how time, temperature, and agitation are the three mutable variables that can be manipulated to obtain a desired result.