How to slow powdered glycin deterioration

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Oldtimer Jay, May 21, 2005.

  1. Oldtimer Jay

    Oldtimer Jay Member

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    Hi All,

    I use glycin in small amounts in some of the developers I mix and buy it fresh in 100 gram bottles from Photographers Formulary. Because it deteriorates rapidly in powder form, I wind up wasting a lot of it. I have read that it lasts very well once it is in solution and wonder if there is some liquid I can mix it with to have a liquid concentrate that would preserve it, yet not interact negatively with the developers I use it in. Perhaps even water would work.
    I use 5 grams of glycin per liter in combination with sodium sulfite, p-aminophenol and p-phenylenediamine and adjust the Ph as needed.
    I know virtually nothing about photochemistry so this may be a tremendously ignorant question, but if it is a feasible
    idea I would greatly appreciate hearing from the photo chemically knowledgeable folks of APUG.
    As a testament to the longevity that is possible with glycin based PPD developers, I acquired a 20 year old sealed bottle of Edwal Super 20 a few months ago and it produced beautiful results on several films I tried it with!

    Thanks in advance,

    Jay
     
  2. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Hi Jay, here are quotes from my postings on a previous Apug Glycin thread.

    “My tests show that Glycin is not soluble in ethyl, methyl or isopropyl alcohol. It is also not soluble in either ethylene or propylene glycol.”

    “…However, I have determined that Glycin is soluble in Triethanolamine (TEA).”

    http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=8211&page=1&pp=10&highlight=glycin

    Triethanolamine is an excellent developer preservative (when little or no water is present). When water is added to Triethanolamine it acts as the alkali in the developer.
     
  3. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

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    Do you have a freezer?
     
  4. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Keeping your glycin dry, cold and in the dark has been reported to increase the shelf life of glycin powder.

    If you want a long shelf life stock solution of glycin, triethanolamine works as the solvent.
     
  5. Oldtimer Jay

    Oldtimer Jay Member

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    Thank you very much Tom and Claire,

    I will pop it in the freezer until I get hold of some TEA and then mix up a stock solution. Tom, if it is not too much of a bother could you let me know if there are any tricks to mixing a stock solution. My natural tendency would be to heat the TEA to 120 Farenheight and gradually add the glycin with continuous stirring until it started to percipitate out at which point I would add a little more TEA. I would be keeping track of Ml. of TEA and Gm. of glycin to determine the correct amount of concentrate to use. Am I thinking along the right lines here?
    Thanks Again to both of you!

    Jay L.
     
  6. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Yes those are the right lines of thought, Jay. However, I would start with the TEA around 140 degrees F. Stir in a small amount of glycin and raise the temperature slowly (if necessary) with stirring until the glycin dissolves. Stir in more glycin until the solution saturates, then add TEA. Some glycin may precipitate out as the solution cools. If that happens, reheat and add more TEA until all the glycin stays in solution.

    A good source of TEA is The Chemistry Store: www.chemistrystore.com
     
  7. c6h6o3

    c6h6o3 Member

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    All these things are constituents of Harvey's 777 which lasts about six months for me once it's in solution. Why not just mix up large batches, replenish and then buy more glycin as you need it?
     
  8. Oldtimer Jay

    Oldtimer Jay Member

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    Hi C6H603 ,

    It is a problem for me to mix big batches because the formula I use requires the use of a chem lab magnetic stirrer to get everything into solution. I have access to the chem lab at the small university where I teach, but each 1 Litre batch is a bit of a project to make and since I shoot mostly 35 MM and use lots of different film and developer combinations, a Litre of any given developer lasts a couple of months. If I bit the bullet and bought a magnetic stirrer and Ph. meter I could do everything at home, and make big batches but I am sitll playing around with this developer and can not justify that right now.
    I like Harvey's 777 quite a bit, but feel that the extra work I am doing to come up with a formula similar to Edwal Super 20 (which was my favorite developer from 1966 to 1985) may be worth the effort.
    A long -winded response to , "Why not big batches?" but an honest one.

    Cheers,

    Jay L.
     
  9. c6h6o3

    c6h6o3 Member

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    If you find it, let us know. Harvey's is a pain, but nothing else gives me the results I want.