HP5+ in overcast light, box speed, how would you process it?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Athiril, May 27, 2012.

  1. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,947
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Had plenty of Tri-X with me. But haven't shot much HP5+, been meaning to, so did, was overcast yesterday.

    Shot at box speed.


    I have access to Rodinal, Xtol (stock or replenished), HC-110, Aculux-3 and T-Max Developer.

    I was shooting some portraits with it.


    Heard people do not like it in overcast conditions.



    How would you process it in with what I have available? Ilford says +20% development time for overcast conditions may be a nice idea on their page.
     
  2. brian steinberger

    brian steinberger Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,561
    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2007
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    I love it in overcast light, but shoot it a bit more than box speed, around 500 or 640. And I develop in ID-11 1:1. I'd go with either Xtol and or HC-110 and develop at recommended time.
     
  3. Michael W

    Michael W Member

    Messages:
    1,430
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Location:
    Sydney
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I mostly use Rodinal and Xtol. Would use Rodinal for this as its likely to give you a bit more contrast than the Xtol. I have also found the Massive Dev Chart times for HP5 in Rodinal to be wrong (generally they are spot on.) For Rodinal, or Adonal, 1+50 they suggest 11 minutes where I find 13 is correct. I have also seen this reported by others, e.g. if you look at Flickr and search for HP5 in Rodinal times.
     
  4. lbenac

    lbenac Member

    Messages:
    305
    Joined:
    May 28, 2010
    Location:
    Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I like it in 510-Pyro 1:100 70F semi-stand 20 minutes = 1 minute agitation and 9 minutes stand then 1 minute agitation and 9 minutes stand.
    This is for 4x5 in tank.


    Cheers,

    Luc
     
  5. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

    Messages:
    6,238
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2010
    Location:
    Southern USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    When faced with low contrast situations the rule is to underexpose and overdevelop. Just how much depends on the subject contrast. This is when a spot meter is useful. Since overdevelopment increases density the exposure must be reduced to compensate. Reading a book about the zone system especially expansion and contraction of the luminance scale would be very helpful.
     
  6. Michael W

    Michael W Member

    Messages:
    1,430
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Location:
    Sydney
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Here is an interesting article by DF Cardwell from 2006. It's about Neopan film, but comparing the looks from processing in Xtol and Rodinal. I think it covers exactly the situation that Athiril is dealing with and suggests that Rodinal is the best choice to boost the highlights, thus giving more contrast.
     
  7. polyglot

    polyglot Member

    Messages:
    3,472
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Location:
    South Austra
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Do you want crunchy with sparkly highlights (Rodinal) or do you want smoother with more midtone separation (XTOL)? Given the flat light, shadow speed should not be an issue and I'd be tempted to go for the Rodinal especially if you like a really bitey look.

    (I'm not really a fan of HP5 or 400TX though, so take this with a big grain of salt)
     
  8. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,947
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I guess I'd like dark blacks with long contrast up to the midtones, midtones up high near highlights, so that the midtones (skin) is very whitish/bright.
     
  9. polyglot

    polyglot Member

    Messages:
    3,472
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Location:
    South Austra
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I guess you'll be developing lots and printing long then...
     
  10. jeffreyg

    jeffreyg Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,377
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2008
    Location:
    florida
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Overcast skies don"t always mean flat light it can be quite bright. I think developing for the contrast of the image space would be the way to go. I prefer overcast to bright sun generally and usually spot meter and develop accordingly. HP5 for my 4x5 and Delta 400 for 120 are my choices for film both developed in ID11 with the 120 at full strength and the 4x5 at 1:1. That said a recent foray into pinhole has me using Delta100 4x5 which is looking good as well.

    "You pay your money and take your chances" it's only film.


    http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/
     
  11. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

    Messages:
    19,971
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Location:
    local
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    get rid of the developers you are presently using
    process your film in caffenol c
    with 10cc print developer / L caffenol. stand develop
    it will do what you want ..
     
  12. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

    Messages:
    7,508
    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    Location:
    Beaverton, OR
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I see two things going on here.

    1-Placement. Since the film is already exposured, the only choice left here is in printing.

    2-Preference for mid to low tone detail.

    Given #2 and the lack of importance of the highlights, I'm going to say Xtol, normal time.

    I'd actually adjust the contrast rate with the paper grade.
     
  13. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,542
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I see this "rule" a lot on APUG. The rule to underexpose and overdevelop is incorrect. The proper procedure for expansion is to expose normally or increase exposure. The negative is then printed down if deep blacks are desired.
     
  14. Richard S. (rich815)

    Richard S. (rich815) Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,958
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'm with Mark, Xtol.
     
  15. c6h6o3

    c6h6o3 Member

    Messages:
    3,219
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I agree. One should never underexpose. Expose for the shadows, develop for the highlights. That adage is just as true today as it's ever been.

    Whatever paper you'll print on has a much shorter scale than any film. I'm always trying to compress the scale in the negative, not expand it. Successful printing involves the art of matching the contrast of the negative to that of the paper.
     
  16. baachitraka

    baachitraka Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,311
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Location:
    Bremen, Germany.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The second photo in the book "The Print" - Ansel Adams, list out some common factors for the 'soot and chalk' quality of landscapes...
     
  17. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,947
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Links to examples?


    I'll have a look.
     
  18. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,210
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Florida
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    ilford is right!
     
  19. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,947
    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Increased times by 20-25%?

    I'm really keen to see this coffee+print developer stand business, just to see what it looks like.
     
  20. baachitraka

    baachitraka Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,311
    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2011
    Location:
    Bremen, Germany.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Please do not carry away by those fancy 'stand' business. You already have very good developers(viz., XTol) for HP5+. Develop according to manufacturer recommendation and print it. Then you really know where to tweak, what to tweak...

    Overcast lighting is a bliss for photography, just incident meter the shadows then you will never go wrong.