Hypo-clear

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by mporter012, Mar 2, 2014.

  1. mporter012

    mporter012 Member

    Messages:
    290
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Location:
    Chicago
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Quick question regarding hypo-clear. I'm doing some at home film development, and want to try using hypo-clear to reduce wash times.

    After developing, stopping, and fixing - I then wash, followed by 1 minute of hypo-clear? How long is it recommended that I wash after using hypo-clear.

    Typically I develop, stop, fix, rinse with city water, and then rinse twice with distilled water in developing tank. If I don't rinse with distilled water after the initial rinse, Chicago water leaves some nasty residue on the film.

    Thanks,

    Mark
     
  2. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

    Messages:
    20,702
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hypo clear is for paper.

    You are not washing the film enough. After washing the film should be rinsed with Kodak PhotoFlo or other equivalent. Do not even think about using liquid soap or anything else in place of Kodak PhotoFlo or other equivalent.
     
  3. MartinP

    MartinP Member

    Messages:
    1,514
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Shooter:
    35mm
    There isn't much benefit using hypo-clear for film, as the fixer doesn't soak in to the filmbase (having said that I did once see paper 'film', but it was from the 1960's and found at the back of a drawer belonging to someones deceased relative).

    Simply follow the instructions of the film/chemical manufacturer. If using a rapid-fix then read up on the "Ilford" wash method - that is still a lot more washing than you are currently using, but not very much more water . . .
     
  4. mporter012

    mporter012 Member

    Messages:
    290
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Location:
    Chicago
    Shooter:
    35mm
    What I understand, according to Kodak's recommendations, is that hypo-clear reduces washing times per the chart they provide. 5 minutes vs 20-30 without. I hate the idea of leaving the water running for 30 minutes. I shut it off when I brush my teeth!

    I just wanted some clarification to make sure I'm doing things correctly. We have a film dryer in the darkroom, so I've never used photo-flo, but I suppose I should at home.
     
  5. mporter012

    mporter012 Member

    Messages:
    290
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Location:
    Chicago
    Shooter:
    35mm
    See page 2 of this chart. I know it's not a requirement to use, but it cuts down on wash times correct? How does rapid fixer vs regular affect wash times?
    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/aj3/aj3.pdf
     
  6. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,459
    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2005
    Location:
    North East U.S.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    No difference in wash times for rapid or regular fixer.
    As noted, hypo-clear does cut down the wash time for film or paper. As I recall, without hypo-clear, Kodak's recommendation for film washing is 20 minutes in running water.
     
  7. RattyMouse

    RattyMouse Member

    Messages:
    3,576
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, Mi
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Why? Water prices in Chicago are dirt cheap. Any water down the drain is either reclaimed by the city and "sold" again after treatment or reclaimed by nature and "sold" again in future.
     
  8. Xmas

    Xmas Member

    Messages:
    6,455
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    wash time is temperature dependent...
    15 minutes of running water is expensive above15C
    Ilfords three changes after clear is archival
    California and China have water problems already
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2014
  9. momus

    momus Member

    Messages:
    2,706
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Location:
    Lower Earth
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    People seem to think that when water goes down the drain, it's gone. No. In most cities it goes into the sewer collection pipes, then to the water treatment facility to be treated before its sent back into local streams and rivers, then back into the ocean. Remember, matter cannot be created nor destroyed. Nothing comes, nor goes, from nothing. All the atoms that exist in the universe were there upon it's creation. Matter is simply transformed into other forms of energy. Even in our vast oceans (which are rapidly being dangerously polluted by the insane radioactive leaking from Japan, where there is a world wide news coverup), the water evaporates into the earth's atmosphere, collects into storm clouds, and comes back down to earth as rain. This is what should scare people. Radioactive nuclear heavy water being allowed to flow freely into our oceans, not a little photographic film water going into the drain.

    While it's true that some areas of earth experience temporary water shortages due to poorly planned infrastructure (resulting in overly concentrated human populations), and poor use of existing water resources, other places have too much water and often suffer flooding. Science is an amazing thing. There are more possible brain cell synapse connections in one human brain than there are atoms in the entire known universe. Use them.

    Hypo is for paper, not film.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2014
  10. peteyj10

    peteyj10 Member

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2014
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Stick with a rapid fixer and don't use hypo-clear for film...and if you print with resin coated paper, don't use it for paper either. Also, no need to use distilled water when washing. I used Chicago tap water in the lab at Loyola, and I use Chicago tap water in my apartment. The key is to use PhotoFlo...or if you need to in a pinch, Jet Dry. Fill the film tank up, put in a drop or two, and swirl the reels. It's as easy as that.
     
  11. Xmas

    Xmas Member

    Messages:
    6,455
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    confirm temporary if you mean a century or longer
    suggest google 'global warming'...

    everyone knows about reactor accidents and thermo nuclear atmospheric tests but unless it rains in SCalf soon the toilets won't flush and they will only have bottled water to wash with...

    water is too expensive to move, building on flood plains is/was silly, sea levels can change

    the 20th Century was exceptionally wet in some areas

    be happy
     
  12. john_s

    john_s Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,110
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2002
    Location:
    Melbourne, A
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    There are too many people on this planet. Eventually Nature will limit the population, and it's not going to be pleasant, but in the meantime using more water than is necessary is wasteful in very many parts of the world (not yours I assume).
     
  13. RattyMouse

    RattyMouse Member

    Messages:
    3,576
    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Location:
    Ann Arbor, Mi
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Water is not wasted. It is always in cycle. Unless you are using electrolysis to break apart water molecules. Then water is in fact, actually lost.
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. Doremus Scudder

    Doremus Scudder Member

    Messages:
    1,318
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2002
    Location:
    Oregon and Austria
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Back on-topic:

    Hypo-Clearing Agent or the like is not needed for film, but will reduce wash times somewhat and often helps to remove the pink/purple cast that stubbornly stay in some film. Don't use it if you use a staining developer, since it will remove the stain.

    You don't have to leave the water running for your entire film wash time. Several changes of water with agitation during the wash cycle is equally as effective. (There's a sticky thread on film washing here on APUG somewhere that would be informative!)

    Although Kodak says you can use Hypo Clear and then wash for only five minutes, washing a bit longer will not do any damage.

    Your final soak in distilled water to get rid of the tap water minerals can simply be extended to a few minutes and give you an extra bit of wash.

    The Kodak document linked to above gives you all you need for good processing technique.

    Best,

    Doremus
     
  16. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

    Messages:
    20,702
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hypo is fixer. Hypo is for both film and paper.

    Hypo Clear is not fixer. Hypo Clear can be used after hypo, to reduce the remaining hypo and thus reduce wash times.

    Referring to Hypo Clear by calling is hypo, is just plain wrong and misleading to others.

    Please use terminology correctly.
     
  17. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,292
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Florida
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    no in theory rapid fixers reduce wash times,because, a rapid fix gives the fixer less time to soak deep into the fibers. the strategy is : strong rapid fixing is better than long weaker fixing.
     
  18. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,292
    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Location:
    Florida
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    why is global warming always where i'm not?
     
  19. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

    Messages:
    20,219
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Location:
    local
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    hi mark

    i don't use hypo clear but perma wash ( similar but a little different )
    i fix 2x in separate fix baths for recommended times
    rinse film ( and paper ) for recommended time
    then into the perma wash for recommended time
    then wash out perma wash for recommended time ( sometimes 2x that time if i am paranoid )

    i think for film it is something like 2 mins rinse, 2min perma, then 2min wash,
    double weight paper 5 mins wash &c
    single weight paper, half that ..
    since i can't remember, i consult the package ( not all brands are the same ) .

    the hypo clear is a substance ( sodium sulfate ? ) that grabs free floating fixer/hypo molecules off of your film / paper / water
    and helps you clear your film /paper/ stuff of these molecules that are just hanging out, not doing anything.
    ( it is based on the us navy's using sea water to reduce wash times in ww2, similar stuff )
    just do what the package of your hypo clear says to do and you won't have troubles and it will reduce your wash times.

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/55643-washing-film-best-environmentally-friendly-way-do.html
    also has info on the soak-method ..

    have fun
    john
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 3, 2014
  20. Xmas

    Xmas Member

    Messages:
    6,455
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Yes but unless it rains in Aus or SCalfornia their reservoirs will empty cause they were sized too small.

    If they were sized for the 20th century they are or will be too small if the 21st is more typical of normal centuries.

    This is not a new thought 40 years ago one of out eko freaks was on UK national TV dropping plastic bricks into US toilet cisterns cause they were too large.

    Looks like he was correct.
     
  21. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

    Messages:
    20,702
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The reason that they are the size they are is because they were built as large as the geography would permit for each one. There is no need to go into psycho-political rants in this thread.
     
  22. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,038
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Going through the California drought, I'm paying more attention to using hypo clear to reduce water use.
     
  23. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

    Messages:
    17,174
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    Delta, BC, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    One further point - if you wash in running water, the flow should be very slow and gentle. Kodak's recommendations are to either:

    a) use running water: "Run the wash water at least fast enough to provide a complete change of water in the container in 5 minutes"; or
    b) use a fill and dump regimen: "For rapid washing in a small tank, fill the tank to overflowing with fresh water and then dump it all out. Repeat this cycle 10 times."

    Greg Davis did some very useful work on this very subject, and there is a Stick Thread that reports his results: http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/84180-film-washing-test.html
     
  24. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

    Messages:
    20,702
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The Glen Canyon Dam, which the environmentalists fought but was built anyway, cannot be kept filled and is mostly empty now. It is a good idea to know the real facts, not the faith based facts based on what one had for breakfast before posting.
     
  25. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,038
    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I worked for a graduate of Brooks and now long time friend. He made this film washer out of an old gallon milk jug with holes on the bottom and a tab cut on top. I made one and I've been using it for 30 years. Seems to work well.
     
  26. Xmas

    Xmas Member

    Messages:
    6,455
    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    There are not any real facts any more you can deny global warming and extreme droughts ever happened in pre history to Peblo people in four corners.

    I use hypo clear followed by three tempered baths and we have too much water but need to use heat to get to 20C.

    Im a statistion, good luck.