I Could Have Done That

Discussion in 'Ethics and Philosophy' started by Richard S. (rich815), Jan 10, 2014.

  1. Richard S. (rich815)

    Richard S. (rich815) Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,960
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    From The Browser:

    I Could Have Done That
    Julian Baggini | Independent | 7th January 2014

    A common criticism of much modern art is that "anybody could do that" — which is increasingly true. Technology has made the resources of professional photographers and composers available to amateurs. Abstract visual art favours painters skilled in relatively simple forms. Conceptual art is often made by other hands. Art still demands a creative imagination, but technical skills are no longer such a barrier. Full article here:

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...-i-could-have-done-that-so-i-did-9042501.html
     
  2. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,422
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto-Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF

    Attached Files:

  3. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

    Messages:
    19,991
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Location:
    local
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    hi rich

    i think everything is like 20/20 hindsight, isn't it ?
    things always seem so easy but in reality they aren't as easy as they seem.

    i think the article was kind of funny ... and in a way inspiring that it is possible to do something
    and pull it off but in the end, (its like bob says), its all about provenance ...

    while i think that technology makes things seem easier, it actually makes things harder ...
    even arcane technology
    like pre panchromatic emulsions.
    it seems so easy it looks so easy, but its not ..
     
  4. Richard S. (rich815)

    Richard S. (rich815) Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,960
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'd agree with that. Back in the early 80's I was avidly pursuing rock drumming for a short while. It was just when the electronic drum machines were gaining mainstream popularity (Think: Phil Collins, In The Air Tonight) and the attitude was similar to this article: well, now anyone can be a drummer. Proved it was not as simple or easy as people thought. Just a new tool that allowed a bit more accessibility to some of the more complicated aspects but still left a lot more to use it well.
     
  5. snapguy

    snapguy Member

    Messages:
    1,297
    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2014
    Location:
    California d
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Oh, yeah?

    Let's see some of your photographs of the Beatles or Elvis, Ali decking his opponent in Madison Square Garden, James Stewart backstage on Broadway during his run as "Harvey,." You did not do that. I did.
     
  6. Richard S. (rich815)

    Richard S. (rich815) Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,960
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    But I could have! If I was there with my new Cannon D10000 and new 24-800 f/1.2 IF ELD EF II-D lens! :smile:
     
  7. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,422
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto-Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    Neil Peart of Rush speaks of wearing very light shoes when drumming because it allows him the ease of lifting his feet very fast and effortlessly , who'd of thunk...
     
  8. Richard S. (rich815)

    Richard S. (rich815) Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,960
    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2003
    Location:
    San Francisco
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I worship Neil Peart.
     
  9. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

    Messages:
    4,184
    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2004
    Location:
    Pennsylvania
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    That pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter...
     
  10. pdeeh

    pdeeh Member

    Messages:
    3,427
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Location:
    UK
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It isn't increasingly true, or, if it is, I'm not sure what evidence you could adduce to support the assertion that it is.

    Unfortunately, simply not true.
    The idea that abstract painters simply slosh a few lines or shapes onto a canvas without any technical skill is ... simplistic, shall we say.
    A straightforward if hackneyed counter-example is Rothko, of course, but there are dozens if not hundreds of others, some well-known, some not.

    One good way of ridding oneself of these sorts of ideas is to sit down and talk to some of the artists practicing abstraction.

    as so often, mr. nanian is much more on the right lines here.
     
  11. winger

    winger Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,898
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2005
    Location:
    southwest PA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Looking at something like a Jackson Pollock, it's easy to think that it's so simple to do. But try it - it's easy to do it, but not nearly as easy to do it well.
     
  12. ntenny

    ntenny Member

    Messages:
    2,283
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Location:
    San Diego, C
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It's also hard to find a consensus on what doing it "well" means. With more-or-less-realistic representational art, you can usually get viewers to a level of basic agreement about whether the representation looks like what it represents, and if your goal was to paint a deer and it came out looking more like a rabbit, that represents a pretty unambiguous failure.

    But if you meant to paint a blob, and you got a blob, but it wasn't the blob you wanted...or maybe it was...or maybe you didn't have a preexisting vision of a particular blob? And your viewer doesn't have an a priori reference for what a blob should look like, so some viewers are likely to see "good blob" and some "bad blob", and there's no real common framework that would allow them to go much further than that.

    It's kind of hard to make a solid argument against someone who says "I think Jackson Pollock sucks". You can point to other people who think he's terrific, you can handwave about expressiveness, but there's practically nothing objective there about which you can start discussing, and the conversation tends to devolve into the Argument Clinic.

    -NT
     
  13. analoguey

    analoguey Member

    Messages:
    1,088
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2013
    Location:
    Bangalore, I
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    So someone who writes for the paper could write a long rambling piece about how he or his photos could get selected in a photo-club, sort of. Not an average person with a (digital) camera and a smartphone or tablet or computer. In between he rambled on even after the cows came home.

    Whatever 'technology has enabled', so to say - then every amateur writer/blogger who ventured into the competition would get published in that paper. The Dependent or whatever it was.
    But they didn't. Others might've a blog post about it. At best; On their own blog. They've not featured. This man has. Why? Everyone has at least 3 word-processor enabled devices with them now - on a good non-alcohol non-drug induced day, everyone should've been able to write AND get published.

    Re digital or film, anyone could've bought top-notch film gear and still gone off to produce images. I dont get this nonsense about digital getting you better images without any intervention - the 'better' part is in the immediacy!
    In good daylight - as the author says - who's to say a full frame P&S film camera wouldn't be better than the digital aps-c P&S?

    And to say technique or technological know-how is not required now, is rubbish! Most cameras now have a textbook instead of a manual - hell, a flash I bought used has a 150pg user manual.
    Hows it 'easier'? Where's the lack of need for technical knowledge?


    At a certain point of time, I used to get really irritated by people posting pictures of traffic in motion - long exposures with basically tail-lights trailing - mostly because of it was the kind of 'at x place open shutter for y seconds n be done'.
    When I attempted it myself, I realised that while I was right in that the images being bad - it wasn't anywhere close to easy to get a dramatic one, myself (not to my satisfaction anyways) - the tail-light trails of course were easy -just stand at a fly-over/ pedestrian overpass.
    (I still get irritated by such photos, but I don't subscribe to those groups anymore B-))


    Sent from Tap-a-talk
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. horacekenneth

    horacekenneth Member

    Messages:
    439
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2012
    Location:
    MD
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    This is a passage from Technique's Marginal Centrality by Clive James, published in Poetry Magazine January 2012. Very interesting and applicable.

     
  16. Truzi

    Truzi Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,771
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    No it doesn't.
     
  17. Alan Klein

    Alan Klein Member

    Messages:
    713
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2011
    Location:
    New Jersey .
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You know, last night I was standing outside looking up at the stars and the light bulb went off. It's not that the sun and stars travel around the Earth. It's that the Earth spins around itself giving us an illusion of these objects crossing the sky, rising and setting. How simple. I'm embarrassed I hadn't thought of it sooner.
     
  18. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Subscriber

    Messages:
    9,083
    Joined:
    May 3, 2006
    Location:
    Ryde, Isle o
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Have, have, have!


    Steve.
     
  19. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,422
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto-Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    I was lucky enough to work with Carrie , his wife on her book project as well make the show prints, We spent a lot of time together here in Toronto and as well in California.
    Neil is a very down to earth dude , but his wife Carrie is a truly wonderful person and he is fortunate to have someone like her in his corner.

    I have never been a huge Rush fan, but after going to a couple of concerts here I gained an appreciation on how three dudes can really play.
    I also met the lead guitarist here at my shop on a photo shoot and he is a huge photo collector and a really nice person.

    I remember when I played fastball, Getty would watch in the stands, he is a huge baseball fan. All three of these dudes are very grounded and truly great Canadian ambassadors.



     
  20. blansky

    blansky Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,985
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Location:
    Wine country, N. Cal.
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Love it.
     
  21. blansky

    blansky Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,985
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Location:
    Wine country, N. Cal.
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    ..or even down the hall to Abuse.
     
  22. blansky

    blansky Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,985
    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2002
    Location:
    Wine country, N. Cal.
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I prefer the nude Farrah Fawcett covered in paint flopping around on a large canvas.

    Now THAT is talent.

    Makes Pollock stuff look like a kid mid-tantrum throwing food on the wall.
     
  23. momus

    momus Member

    Messages:
    2,713
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2009
    Location:
    Lower Earth
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Since modern art is about 100 years old now, technology didn't have much to do w/ it. You can give someone all the technology in the world, but if they don't have a unique vision and talent, along with discipline and drive, it isn't going to help them. Anyone that thinks that "anyone can do it" doesn't know very much, but that's OK. That's how most people are. Asleep at the wheel. Anyone can copy an original, existing idea.

    There's the critics, and then there's the people who create the works. Nothing has changed since cave art. I'm sure some Cro Magnum guy groused "Hmph, he thinks he's something. Why, anyone could do that". Talk is cheap. Artists talk w/ their works, not their mouths.
     
  24. ntenny

    ntenny Member

    Messages:
    2,283
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2008
    Location:
    San Diego, C
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I see what you did there.

    -NT
     
  25. Vaughn

    Vaughn Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,306
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Location:
    Humboldt Co.
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Makes one think about what other parts of reality are hidden by our language. George Carlin was good at point a lot of those out to us. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1MSI592s64
     
  26. Toffle

    Toffle Member

    Messages:
    1,850
    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2007
    Location:
    Point Pelee,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    ...or just to keep it local, Abuse is in the Lounge. (and banging the head is in the Soap Box)