If you're shooting 4x10 please chirp in

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by Rob Skeoch, Oct 22, 2010.

  1. Rob Skeoch

    Rob Skeoch Advertiser Advertiser

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    I'm in the market for a new camera. Right now I have an 8x10 but am getting a new one. I'm considering getting an 4x10 instead of an 8x10.

    If you shoot with a 4x10 please chirp in.

    Are you glad you bought it, instead of 8x10?

    Issues finding film?

    Which lens do you use the most?

    Overall are you glad you did it?

    -Rob
     
  2. Richard Wasserman

    Richard Wasserman Member

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    It's a little soon for me to answer all your questions as I am in the process of building a 4x10 camera. I started with an older 4x5 Arca Swiss and bought a Shen Hao 4x10 reducing back for their 8x10 cameras. I cut the back down and am making a frame for it and the new bellows which I will order from Custom Bellows. I have an older 180mm Fuji lens that will cover nicely and a 10" Commercial Ektar. If I find that I need something wider I'll use my 110mm Super Symmar XL. I hope to have the camera completed within a month as I have a project in mind that I will be using it for. I purchased a Fotoman film slitter to cut down 8x10 film. It works really well and even notches the film so you can tell the emulsion side in the dark. A small rotary paper trimmer would also work well I'm sure. I hope to use C41 color film and Phoenix Labs here in Chicago said they'd be happy to try processing it–they're pretty confident they can do it even though it will be a first for them.

    If I had an 8x10 I would seriously consider a reducing back for it rather than a dedicated 4x10 camera which seems a bit specialized to me as an only camera. You could easily do verticals too. I primarily shoot 4x5.

    I hope this helps!
     
  3. BradS

    BradS Member

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    (....marginally related....)
    I had a widelux (a 35mm swing lens panoramic camera). The prints from those negatives were 4x10....which I find to be unsatisfying small for most subjects. I can't laying out for a 4x10 camera and holders and then putting up with the hassle of cutting film for that size print. It would be fun to fool around with once in a while, but, I think a carefully trimmed darkslide would do the job at much less hassle and cost.
     
  4. David William White

    David William White Member

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    kind of interested myself...rob, what's your latest intel on the shenhao's?
     
  5. Jim Noel

    Jim Noel Member

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    I have 4x10 and 8x10 among others. I built the 4x10. It is very handy for me when it is too much of a hike to take the 7x17. I also have a 6x17 cm Fuji. Each camera has its own purpose and It would be difficult to give up any of them.
    A cut down 8x10 dark slide does work well, but you still have to carry the extra weight.
    At my age of 81, I carry as little as possible for as short a distance as possible.
     
  6. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    I shoot a dedicated 5x12 (Canham, so it actually is also a 5x7 with the appropriate hardware swap). I just order my film during the annual Ilford ULF run. I don't shoot so much with it that I ever run out, because panoramics are definitely a specialty thing. If a lens covers 8x10, it covers 5x12, so there's no issue with lenses. In deciding to get the 5x12 as opposed to trying to shoot 4x10 some way, I found that the 4x10 print just felt too small. The 5x12 isn't that much bigger, but it sure feels different. The downside is trying to find holders (which isn't that much different for 4x10 if you want dedicated holders instead of doing the cut darkslide on an 8x10). They're rare and expensive.
     
  7. Rob Skeoch

    Rob Skeoch Advertiser Advertiser

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    The plan would be to get the ShenHao 4x10 and three holders. I plan to print them with my 8x10 enlarger.

    I still have film from the large format special run since I'm the retail seller in Canada.
     
  8. Vaughn

    Vaughn Subscriber

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    That is what I do -- two camera formats for the cost and weight of a half-darkslide!

    The hassle with it is, 1) Remembering that extra step in the process (removing the full darkslide and putting in the modified one -- and reversing that after the exposure) and 2) Keeping track of which half got exposed, etc! I still mess up occasionally.

    But a dedicated 4x10 could really cut down the space and weight -- close to a 5x7 -- for some serious hiking, yet still get that 10" long neg!

    Vaughn
     
  9. rmann

    rmann Subscriber

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    I use a 5x7 Canham and a 4x10 Canham back. Takes very little time to switch formats in the field - the 4x10 back adds to the size of the equipment bag I carry, but it is smaller than an additional camera. For film I use the 4x10 from Ilford's special order, and I cut down 8x10. There are a number of posts around on the use of cut 8x10 dark slides vs a 4x10 camera - when I made my decision, I opted for the simpler working solution of a 4x10 camera with the downside of its added cost. Holders can be bought new from Canham.
     
  10. 8x20_Pano_Shooter

    8x20_Pano_Shooter Member

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    Rob,
    Let me be the first to welcome you to the pano world. I use to shoot 8x10. But now I am exclusively 4x10 and 8x20. I prefer the pano format. I use Ilford HP5+ and order a year's supply at a time. If needed, 8x10 film is cut and I have a Kalt slide notcher which I use to mark the unnotched piece of film. Depending upon how far I have to go to get the shot determines the camera for me. I can carry the 8x20 complete, ready to shoot with two film holders only about 75 yards from the vehicle. Past that, I get the backpack out. I have two 4x10 cameras. . .one horizontal (4x10 Canham) and one vertical. My husband built the vertical camera for me. http://www.jbhphoto.com/vcam/vcams.htm It is a different mindset shooting this format. I carry a Zone VI viewing filter that is modified specifically for 4x10. Each 4x10 has its own backpack and set of lenses. I'll provide you with a summary of what I use. Schneider 120mm Super Angulon, 6 1/2" WA Dagor, 210 Apo Symmar, 240 G Claron, 16 1/2" Artar, 19" Artar, 305 G Claron and a 24" Artar. Some of these lenses may not work on the camera that you choose due to the amount of bellows draw. I have a lot of duplicate length lenses, but again, that's because I have two complete backpack systems. For me, there's not really a lens that is used the most. I shoot in all types of locations and that's what determine the lens. I crop on the ground glass, not in the darkroom.
     
  11. David William White

    David William White Member

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    rob, so the shenhao 4x10 is the same price as their 8x10?!?
     
  12. Eric Mac

    Eric Mac Member

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    4x10

    Rob

    I've been using a home built 4x10 back on a Zone Vi 4x5 body. I've been using a rotary paper cutter with usable results. I purchased some Ebay 4x10 carriers from HK, but found that the outside dimensions were about a 1/16th inch out of square. These were just 8x10 holders chopped down.

    Zone VI 4x10 build thread

    My goal is to step up to 7x17, but that looks like a 2011 diy project.

    Eric
     
  13. Rob Skeoch

    Rob Skeoch Advertiser Advertiser

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    Yes David, the two cameras are the same price.

    The 4x10 is what I would call a classic design. Focus knobs on both sides and the camera folds down.

    The 8x10 is a more modern designed.... copied from the Richard's cameras with one focus knob in the very back.

    ShenHao cameras in the classic design are more expensive models than the newer design. However they only offer the 4x10 in this more expensive design.... and no longer make the 8x10 in this style.

    I feel I would enjoy the classic style more.... but that's just because it's what I'm used to and I don't really like change.

    -rob
     
  14. Vaughn

    Vaughn Subscriber

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    One thing to consider is that, even if you prefer the traditional design, Ritter's 8x10 design would be very close to the weight of a 4x10 traditional wood folding camera. The weight of the holders on a per 4x10 image basis is less using 8x10 holders than 4x10 holders (assuming two 4x10 images/8x10 sheet, and the same construction and type of materials of the holders.)

    So for less weight you get the ease of vertical 4x10 shots, and an 8x10 camera, too.

    Have fun deciding!

    Vaughn
     
  15. Keith Pitman

    Keith Pitman Subscriber

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    I enjoy the 4x10 and have used several by different manufacturers. I'm currently using a Chamonix, which I like best because it's small, compact, and lightweight.

    The biggest downside of 4x10 is that it's petty small for contact printing. I'm now enlarging 4x10s to about 7x17.

    Ilford makes FP4 and HP5 in 5x10 annually. For other films, you'll probably need to plan to cut down 8x10 film. It's not difficult; you just have to organize how you do it very carefully.

    I use the 165mm Angulon most frequently, and a 240mm second most frequently.

    You might consider getting a 4x10 back for your 8x10 to try it out. Another footnote: The Shen Hao is a nice camera, but it larger and heavier than some 4x10s.

    Good luck.


     
  16. andrew plume

    andrew plume Member

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    Hi Rob

    Kerry Thalmann is the man, if not one of them for varied discussions on 4x10 cameras. From memory, it's a format that he's very fond of, he wrote a succession of articles in VC mag a few/some years ago, not only on suitable cameras for the format but also on lenses and filmholders

    hope this helps

    andrew
     
  17. Rob Skeoch

    Rob Skeoch Advertiser Advertiser

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    I just ordered the ShenHao 4x10 camera with a few holders and also the 5x7 back and a couple holders. I hope to have it working in a couple weeks.

    -rob
     
  18. andrew plume

    andrew plume Member

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    that's a great conversion Eric - any possibility of posting some photos that you've taken with it?

    andrew
     
  19. keithwms

    keithwms Member

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    I have a shen 4x10 that I like very much, though I am not using it much of late. The special thing about my rig is that I also have a 5x7 and a *5x8* back for it. I was using the latter with 5" aerial panatomic x film, which I have a lot of.

    Regarding film, that is easy, I just slice 8x10 in my film changing tent.

    4x10 is a very nice format, though honestly I haven't been using it as much as the 5x8. I need to get back to 4x10 but it's a mood that comes and goes!