Ilfochrome

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by gma, Jun 15, 2004.

  1. gma

    gma Member

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    Please excuse my ignorance, but is Ilfochrome the same material as Ilford Cibachrome? I suspect that it is an updated product, rebranded. From the Ilford website it appeared to me to be used the same as Cibachrome.
     
  2. Les McLean

    Les McLean Subscriber

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    Ilfochrome is the new version of Cibachrome. Ciba-Geigy used to own Ilford many years ago but some time ago when they sold Ilford the brand name of the product went with Ilford and was changed. I understand that there have been some modifications but it is basically the same product.
     
  3. gma

    gma Member

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    Thanks, Les.
     
  4. gma

    gma Member

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    And another thanks, Les. I just picked up two Ilfochrome enlargements that are color saturated and every bit as luminescent as the old Cibachrome. Unique indeed.
     
  5. Stan. L-B

    Stan. L-B Member

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    Yes, perhaps - but will it last as long as the Ciba? I think not....Stan. L-B :smile:
     
  6. gma

    gma Member

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    Stan,

    I have looked at the Ilford website and the Ilfochrome description is the same as the Cibachrome of the past except now it is available in three contrast grades instead of one. I don't know if the material is branded differently in the UK than in the US, but it seems to be exactly the same as the Cibachrome enlargements we have had made in the past, with the same luminous, almost porcelain or metallic glow. It is said to last 25 years unprotected and 50 years behind glass.
     
  7. Stan. L-B

    Stan. L-B Member

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    Les & gma
    If it be true that the new Inforchrome process in now the same as the old Cibachrome the there must have been quite a turn around by Ilford as the processes are in the reverse.

    With the original colour printing papers such as R14 by Kodak and Ilfords equilivant, the colour is introduced into the emulsion by chemical action.

    By contrast, Cibachrome has the colour dyes pre-coated into the emulsion at the manufacturning stage, the processing removes those not required for the final image. I hope I have made my point. :smile:
     
  8. lee

    lee Member

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    By contrast, Cibachrome has the colour dyes pre-coated into the emulsion at the manufacturning stage, the processing removes those not required for the final image. I hope I have made my point.

    I believe it is called a "dye-destruction" process. It has always been my belief that only the name changed when Ilford bought the Cibachrome name from Ciby-Geigy.
    I would trust Les in this since he works for Ilford sometimes.
    lee\c
     
  9. Les McLean

    Les McLean Subscriber

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    As far as I know Ilfochrome is made in the same factory in Switzerland as Cibachrome was made although as David said in his post they have modified Ilfochrome by introducing 3 different contrasts. When International Papers sold Ilford to the Hanson group a few years ago Ciba Gigy and the factory in Marley in Switzerland was part of the deal. Ilford have since been subject to another change of owner, a management buy out I think, but the Marley factory is still part of the business. I often talk to the head of research there about digital inks and papers which is why I know that it's still part of Ilford. I'll check with Ilford UK tomorrow as to what differences, if any, there are between Cibachrome and Ilfochrome and post the answer.
     
  10. Les McLean

    Les McLean Subscriber

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    Further to my last post on this subject I spoke to Ilford this morning and they confirmed that Ilfochrome is the same product as Cibachrome. The only change is the creation of 3 different contrasts and in fact the new high contrast is virtually the same as the old Cibachrome.
     
  11. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Hi Les
    I have a ilford p3x 30 inch processor (bought new 1996-7) . I have been using the three contrast grades of cibachrome. For quite a while I used
    CLMK grade which is in the middle of the three contrast grades. I always found the ciba chrome paper lacking in the blue area of the colour gamut. Sky , Levis pants , did not seem to reproduce well.
    Recently we have been using the new Universal cibachrome for digital and traditional printing and I must admit the blue rendering is quite good. In fact we try to use this paper for all our printing as the contrast,colour saturation, and modulation is far superior than the two grades. CLMK and CFK.
    I suspect this paper is the old cibachrome paper , slightly modified to react to the Lambda exposing unit.
    We have seen a huge resurgence in this product in the last year and are quite happy(obviously) . As a printer of a lot of different medias in house I can honestly say cibachrome is a step above ink jet and ra4.
    This product can be printed in a Jobo and I would encourage photographers to try it. Getting help from Ilford could be troublesome but a few stores like B&H do stock the materials to make prints.
    One warning , the new product will give you headaches if you use a contrasty original, and making good masks are difficult but not impossible, therefore the need for the two lower contrast papers.
     
  12. Stan. L-B

    Stan. L-B Member

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    Thanks Les and Bob:
    All is much clearer now. Keep us posted with these gems of info., they are so
    necessary, to keep us abreast of developments.
     
  13. tim atherton

    tim atherton Inactive

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    All is much clearer now. Keep us posted with these gems of info., they are so
    necessary, to keep us abreast of developments.[/QUOTE]

    Stan, Cibacrhome has been Ilfochrome for oh - ten years. Ciba-Geigy got rid of their stake in Ilford in 1989 requiring the name change to Ilfochrome (it was always really an Ilford product from 1963 when Ciba-Geigy joined with Ilford) Not exactly a recent development.... :smile:
     
  14. L Gebhardt

    L Gebhardt Subscriber

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    What is the Universal Cibachrome (I assume it is Ilfochrome)? A code # would be helpfull.
     
  15. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Hi l Gebhard

    the name of the paper is CPS1K Universal Cat#1433429
    This paper we use on the Lambda and on traditional enlarger
    I beleive it is the original emulsion from the 80"s that we used before the lower contrast papers of the 90's were introduced
    If you know how to make contrast masks with highlight seperators you can use this paper for all applications on a traditional enlarger.
    I prefer this paper over the lower contrast versions for many reasons. the main reason would be its ability to record the blue spectrum of transparancies.
    When Ciba Geigi sold to International Paper , Ilford had to change the name therefore ilfochrome, this has led to a lot of confusion as Ilford was or is offering a lower price paper which used direct printing techniques. A lot of people confused the two products . therefore I have continued to call this cibachrome - developed in P3X chemistry
    hope this helps
    Bob Carnie
     
  16. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    To Larry and others interested in cibachrome

    A couple of months ago I posted thoughts on availability of ciba products, I stated I would do my best to get better info from the source , I have spoken to reliable sources within Ilford and here is what I have been told.
    The Rc version of cibachrome is indeed being phased out, except for 50 inch rolls of pearle
    Most of the cps line, cfk line and clmk cut sheet line is being held intact , 50inch roll to 11inch roll will be available.
    P3x chemistry will be available for the above,

    Ilford has openly admitted that they are indeed in trouble as we all have been discussing, but they are ademant that this restructuring will indeed be done and I believe them . Supply to North America will be strained these next few months, an email of support to Ilford US would be helpful as you all can imagine the stressful period they are going through right now.

    If any one has 30 boxes of Ilford Warmtone 11x14 glossy please Email .

    I have no idea the situation with Black and White as this product was manufactured in England, not the Swiss Plant which I understand is not in any problem
     
  17. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    To Larry and others interested in cibachrome

    A couple of months ago I posted thoughts on availability of ciba products, I stated I would do my best to get better info from the source , I have spoken to reliable sources within Ilford and here is what I have been told.
    The Rc version of cibachrome is indeed being phased out, except for 50 inch rolls of pearle
    Most of the cps line, cfk line and clmk cut sheet line is being held intact , 50inch roll to 11inch roll will be available.
    P3x chemistry will be available for the above,

    Ilford has openly admitted that they are indeed in trouble as we all have been discussing, but they are ademant that this restructuring will indeed be done and I believe them . Supply to North America will be strained these next few months, an email of support to Ilford US would be helpful as you all can imagine the stressful period they are going through right now.

    If any one has 30 boxes of Ilford Warmtone 11x14 glossy please Email .

    I have no idea the situation with Black and White as this product was manufactured in England, not the Swiss Plant which I understand is not in any problem