Ilforchrome troubleshoot

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by rossawilson1, Dec 4, 2008.

  1. rossawilson1

    rossawilson1 Member

    Messages:
    154
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Location:
    salisbury, U
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    If any one can help I'd appreciate it.

    I tried Ilfochrome again today, the chemicals say they'll last 3 years and the papers been kept properly.

    On my first go I used settings from a successful print with the same batch of paper and chemicals.

    The print, well, piece of paper came out all over deep dark magenta, not even the faintest trace of a picture.. any ideas?

    Bad paper? Bad chems? I know these settings work for another print of mine which makes me think it's not the exposure end.
     
  2. rossawilson1

    rossawilson1 Member

    Messages:
    154
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Location:
    salisbury, U
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Never mind.. papers a year and a half out of date.
     
  3. Lopaka

    Lopaka Member

    Messages:
    757
    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2006
    Location:
    Michigan
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Depends on storage conditions. I have used this paper 5 years out of date and gotten good results. It does shift toward magenta requiring filter changes and more exposure.

    Bob
     
  4. rossawilson1

    rossawilson1 Member

    Messages:
    154
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Location:
    salisbury, U
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Oh.. I'm not even getting an image right now, just a deep dark megenta/red piece of paper.
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,896
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Test your chemistry by running a totally fogged strip and a totally unexposed strip. The fogged one should be white and the unexposed one should be black if the chemistry is good. If both are still red it is probably the chemistry. If one is red (unexposed) and one is white, then it is probably the paper.

    PE
     
  6. John Meyer

    John Meyer Member

    Messages:
    46
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2005
    Shooter:
    Med. Format Pan
    ilfochrome troubleshoot

    See if you exposed it through the back side of the paper..
    Did any stray light hit the paper, possibly red light of some kind?
    John
     
  7. Renato Tonelli

    Renato Tonelli Subscriber

    Messages:
    684
    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2007
    Location:
    New York Cit
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    John may have hit the nail on the head: you might be exposing the paper through the base; check to make sure that the paper is emulsion side-up on the easel.

     
  8. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,896
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Guys;

    If it were exposed through the base, there should still be an image! At least that is my take on this.

    PE
     
  9. rossawilson1

    rossawilson1 Member

    Messages:
    154
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Location:
    salisbury, U
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'm 99% sure it wasn't exposed through the base, I'm pretty careful with that and when it goes into the drum I make sure the easel up side faces the center of the drum. When I took it out of the drum it was the right way up.

    I will try the fogging method today and post my results later, thanks for all the ideas so far!
     
  10. rossawilson1

    rossawilson1 Member

    Messages:
    154
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Location:
    salisbury, U
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Tried the fogging thing along with an unexposed piece of paper.. nope, same exact thing on both bits.

    Then I dumped the chemicals and made some new ones being super extra carfeul.. always am but still, anyway same exact thing.

    This must be the concentrates right? I need new chems and paper don't I?
     
  11. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

    Messages:
    25,896
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2005
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Well, a totally fogged piece of good or bad paper should be white in a good process, and an unexposed piece of good paper should be black in a good process. An unexposed piece of bad paper should be "something" in a good process and that depends on the nature of the aging process.

    So, your results are odd to say the least. They indicate perhaps a mix of bad paper and process, but I'm not sure.

    If you have B&W paper, a small test strip should blacken totally in the developer in about 1 - 2 minutes. There is nothing really to test the bleach solution short of a dye bleach material.

    PE
     
  12. uwphotoer

    uwphotoer Member

    Messages:
    59
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Location:
    Piedmont, NC
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have found over the years that the chemistry goes bad faster than most people think, and the original P30-P powdered chemicals really don't do that well near the expiration date. I have also found that the new chemicals which are all liquids also don't have much of a shelf life.

    Old paper just complicates the entire troubleshooting process.
     
  13. rossawilson1

    rossawilson1 Member

    Messages:
    154
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Location:
    salisbury, U
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Well I'm ordering a whole new batch of everything.. I'll be back if this mystery returns!
     
  14. uwphotoer

    uwphotoer Member

    Messages:
    59
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Location:
    Piedmont, NC
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    That's where I am too..... wasted the last 2 days in the darkroom
     
  15. wogster

    wogster Member

    Messages:
    1,267
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Location:
    Bruce Penins
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Powders usually last much longer then liquids, it really depends though on what is in the stuff, some chemicals will break down quicker in the presence of other chemicals. Which is why you can find a bag of some B&W developers from 1978 in a back corner of the darkroom and unless it's been wet, it will still work like new. Other chemistries if the expiration date is December 4, 2008 then toss it, it's no good anymore. This is a common problem for colour chemistries though. You can only buy a 5 gallon kit, you have to mix the whole thing and then use it up within 24 hours. Kinda makes you wonder if the best thing for the home processor is to buy the individual chemicals, then mix up your own in small quantities with a chemist's scale. I've seen recipes for C41, E6 and IIRC RA4, wonder if any one has them for the Ilfochrome chems....
     
  16. analogsnob

    analogsnob Member

    Messages:
    113
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    The trick with Ilfochrome chems is the catalist which is present in the developer and bleach. For testing purposes dektol can be substitued for the developer, the print can be put back in the bleach for longer times and any amoinium thiosulfate non hardening fix will work. This is only for trouble shooting but it is frequently interesting.
     
  17. rossawilson1

    rossawilson1 Member

    Messages:
    154
    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2008
    Location:
    salisbury, U
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I usually only mix up 500ml at a time. Before when this was working I found I could get 7 8x10's from this much without any noticeable shift or other problems. Kinda works out well because that's my average for doing 2-3 of good prints in one session from the same film.
     
  18. uwphotoer

    uwphotoer Member

    Messages:
    59
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Location:
    Piedmont, NC
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The new ilfochrome chemistry is all liquid, and each step is in a 1 L bottle.... so you add an equal amount of water to get a 2 L mix...... which is what I need for the Ilford processor CAP 40 that I use.... but in a day I can exhaust the chemicals.... I can run over 40 8x10...... however 10 - 16x20's will kill it just as fast....

    The big problem I heard about from Ilford was getting a good mix of those powered chemicals.... About 10 years ago I had 10 of the P30-P mixes that had all sorts of problems getting a good print out of. After contacting them they told me the problem and sent me 10 more mixes. They told me they had a tough time getting the powders to mix evenly before packaging and that is one of the reasons they went back to the liquid solutions.
     
  19. glaiben

    glaiben Member

    Messages:
    74
    Joined:
    May 17, 2008
    Location:
    Kansas City,
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I just got back into analog printing expressly for Ilfochrome - got a good deal on an enlarger (Philips PCS2000) that included some old P30 chemistry (liquid/powder 1L x 2 formula) and 50 sheets of CPM.1M 8x10 (expiration 2001). Have no idea how it was stored, but after playing with it tonight, discovered probably not so well <g>.

    First test strip: fogged portion processed (when dry) as dark blue; the covered portion was black. Then tried a couple of test prints with the enlarger - had to crank exposure up to 75 seconds as an 8x10 with lens wide open to show a faint image. It's obviously bad paper and/or chemistry, but wow, it is great to see the magic emerge from the tube - sure beats watching ink dry!!!

    I will call up Freestyle Monday and place an order for new P30 and paper. Sure would have been nice if the "freebies" had still been good <g>.
     
  20. Wayne

    Wayne Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,130
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Location:
    USA
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Dont feel bad, my 2001 dated paper was stored in the freezer and it is toast.


    Wayne
     
  21. uwphotoer

    uwphotoer Member

    Messages:
    59
    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2008
    Location:
    Piedmont, NC
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have found that ciba material kept really well in the 90's but as this century has progressed the stuff stores poorer and poorer. I have one year old chemistry..... and it's no good any more..... and paper that once lasted for years with no attention to storage now will last less time even with the best storage possible.

    Oh well..... don't make it like they used to.....
     
  22. Wayne

    Wayne Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,130
    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2005
    Location:
    USA
    Shooter:
    Large Format


    I wonder how long your one year old chemistry sat on the shelf before you got it. My local store has a kit thats been there for at least 3 years...


    Wayne