Ilford 70mm Film Special?

Discussion in 'Product Availability' started by Martin Reed, Feb 4, 2009.

  1. Martin Reed

    Martin Reed Advertiser

    Messages:
    325
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2004
    Location:
    North London
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    As a possible extension of the Harman special sheet film production scheme, is there any interest in something similar in FP4/HP5 in 70mm perforated?

    Having run it past the planners at Harman, they are prepared to cut it as a special order for Silverprint. We would have to order a minimum of 60 cans of 30 metres, in either film type, and keeping it priced as competitively as possible it would sell at £80.00 + VAT per roll. This price is not significantly more than the equivalent sq. metres in 35mm 30 metres, so Harman are being supportive here. We would take a chance in holding some stock, but would like around 60-70% of it covered with committed orders to go ahead.

    When we first discussed it, Simon Galley estimated it would need a £20-30k order to kick it off - this then came down to 120 cans, so 60 cans is a big concession from Harman. So is there enough of a user base in 70mm to keep a regular supply of the format on tap, in very popular emulsions? We await the response with interest.
     
  2. spoolman

    spoolman Subscriber

    Messages:
    394
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2007
    Location:
    Toronto Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format Pan
    Hello Martin:I would be interested in one can of each but it would be to facilitate re-spooling 116/616 spools and backing paper for re-use in old cameras.I don't know if the perforations would be a problem and I doubt that Harman would produce the order in both perforated and non-perforated for those who would want to do what I would be using it for.Any thoughts on this?.

    I realize that there is still 70mm non-perforated film by Kodak still available in the U.S. from B&H, but two more types would give a better selection to choose from and I realize that to ship it to either Canada or the U.S. would involve significant costs as well as the exchange rate but I would be willing to take that into consideration.Just my two cents worth.

    Doug
     
  3. Martin Reed

    Martin Reed Advertiser

    Messages:
    325
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2004
    Location:
    North London
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'm pretty sure not possible, any making would be one type, one packing, but I'll ask the question. The proposed 60 x 30m order is very small to a factory on the scale of Harman.
     
  4. vitus

    vitus Member

    Messages:
    9
    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2006
    Location:
    Europe
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have a last can of Ilford HP5 Plus aerial 70mm x 30m unperforated film - 3 years beyond the expiration date. No apparent problem with that stuff so far. Since it is compatible with my Graflex RH50 back only it would be nice to try the new, fresh batch with type II perf. with my Hassy 70mm backs.
    Martin, I would be interested in one can of HP5 and FP4 type II perf. 70mm films.

    Jan Wilhelm
     
  5. Tom Kershaw

    Tom Kershaw Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,947
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2004
    Location:
    South Norfol
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Does anyone know if there is a Bronica SQ series 70mm back? Additionally, how does one go about developing 70mm film? - obviously a reel to load the film would be the essential item.

    2nd. Would the film be provided in camera ready loads?


    Tom.
     
  6. Terence

    Terence Member

    Messages:
    1,346
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Location:
    NYC
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'd be up for 3 or 4 rolls of FP4.

    Anyone who knows a source of new cannisters, please PM me.
     
  7. PHOTOTONE

    PHOTOTONE Member

    Messages:
    2,412
    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2006
    Location:
    Van Buren, A
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Just a comment that if you are contemplating getting a roll or several of 70mm 30 meter film, you should have your processing methods all sorted out. Do you have a 70mm reel? The lengths normally found in 70mm cassettes (if you are reloading) are long and require a special large reel and tank. Of course if you purchase a "bulk" roll you can cut your length to suit when you reload your cassettes. If you use a custom pro lab for your processing, you need to give them a call and see if they can handle 70mm.
     
  8. Alex Bishop-Thorpe

    Alex Bishop-Thorpe Member

    Messages:
    1,455
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2006
    Location:
    Adelaide, So
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Where does one even find a 70mm bulk loader?
    I'm interested, but I don't own any 70mm equipment. I just don't shoot that much medium format, I suppose, but I'd like to see this accomplished.
     
  9. Martin Reed

    Martin Reed Advertiser

    Messages:
    325
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2004
    Location:
    North London
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  10. delphine

    delphine Member

    Messages:
    628
    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2007
    Location:
    London (UK)
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I would be interested in one can, HP5 preferably.

    Best

    Delphine
     
  11. Terence

    Terence Member

    Messages:
    1,346
    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2005
    Location:
    NYC
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I already have a loader and developing reel and tank. However, while the cassettes are reloadable, they are not infinitely reloadable. Similar to 35mm cans, the felt becomes matted, etc and the "spring" of the can loosens. Eventually light leaks develop. So while I have a stash of decent "users", they probably won't last me through the bulk rolls of film I already have. eBay is an okay source for them, but there's no guarantee they'll be light-tight and it's tough to really judge their condition without shooting a few rolls through them. I have beautiful cans that look new, but leak like a sieve.
     
  12. johnsk01

    johnsk01 Member

    Messages:
    1
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2006
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I would be interested in 5 cans, either type.

    Thanks

    Kevin
     
  13. keithwms

    keithwms Member

    Messages:
    6,075
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2006
    Location:
    Charlottesvi
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'd also be interested in a fair amount of fp4+ and/or maybe pan f.

    I'll say 5 cans of fp4+ for now.
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

    Messages:
    4,679
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Location:
    Italia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    There are/were various 70mm backs for the ETR I've got a non-working third party one. I'm not sure what's wrong with it. The SQ likely had similar third party backs.

    Developing? I've got X-ray reels. Cheap plastic reels. Too big for any know light proof tank. Plus I've got a couple reels intended for 116. The Xray reels are better.

    The rare 5' Jobo reel is hard to find often expensive and only takes 5'. But fits a Jobo 2500 tank.

    Hewes makes 70mm reels. Not cheap.
     
  16. FilmIs4Ever

    FilmIs4Ever Restricted Access

    Messages:
    377
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Location:
    Cleveland, O
    Count me in for a couple hundred feet, err umm, I mean 60.96m ;-)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2009
  17. FilmIs4Ever

    FilmIs4Ever Restricted Access

    Messages:
    377
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Location:
    Cleveland, O
    Due to the fact that you're cutting from the same stock as 35mm, wouldn't that eliminate the stock limitations you've had with sheet film?

    As Tri-X and I think Plus-X in the U.K. are still available from Kodak, I would think that maybe one of the Deltas would be a better choice. . .

    But in any case, I'd like to try out whatever you can put together an order for.
     
  18. Q.G.

    Q.G. Inactive

    Messages:
    5,682
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2007
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    You can change the felt. Put new felt in. :wink:
     
  19. Martin Reed

    Martin Reed Advertiser

    Messages:
    325
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2004
    Location:
    North London
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Story so far

    Thanks to the people who have put their hands up so far, it would certainly seem possible to get something going on the basis of this interest, especially as the provisional orders include multiple rolls.

    I can see the argument for going to Delta, but unfortunately it's so minority in usage relative to the standard emulsions, that it would limit the take-up and probably kill the whole thing. If FP4/HP5 could be established in 70mm, the Delta emulsions could follow.

    Having checked with Hewes today, the 70mm spirals are available in both capacities from stock, and are round the £50 mark, which doesn't seem too bad for a large piece of S/S kit like that. Hewes don't supply any sort of deep tank cage, but recommend using a central rod for agitation in a deep tank.

    One downside is that all potential orders so far seem to be from the US, which means Silverprint is in the wrong continent to be co-ordinating this. If a specialist store in the US is interested, I expect they can get the same deal. However we can send, shipping costs by surface mail from the UK should not be onerous, but does anyone have anything definitive for the X-ray risk for film on surface mail from UK to US?
     
  20. Tom Kershaw

    Tom Kershaw Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,947
    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2004
    Location:
    South Norfol
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The Delta films are in a significant minority in sales terms compared to FP4 Plus / HP5 Plus in formats currently stocked?

    Tom.
     
  21. FilmIs4Ever

    FilmIs4Ever Restricted Access

    Messages:
    377
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Location:
    Cleveland, O
    I don't think it is reasonable to get more than two emulsions made from one company in 70mm ever again, unless you're talking about actual aerial film.

    I think it would be better for Ilford (as apparantly Tri-X is still available here in the states) to offer something in this size that Kodak doesn't.

    Don't get me wrong. I shoot 2 1/4 x 2 3/4", so it's not as if I have a problem with older emulsions in this size, just that offering Delta 100 and 400 instead would give Ilford an edge over Kodak's offering and possibly encourage more people to flip flop or encourage people that aren't fans of Tri-X to give the format a try.

    I definitely think this format would appeal to all of the people I see (at least on here, never met one personally) who gripe about Ilford's only supplying 120-sized film.

    You can cram 65 shots in a 70mm cassette, more than three rolls of 220!

    If Kodaks is any indication though, it would be best to consolidate to just two, maybe just one emulsion. Delta 400 would definitely be my choice over HP5.
     
  22. Chazzy

    Chazzy Member

    Messages:
    2,951
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Location:
    South Bend,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    A pity that there are no 70mm backs for my Koni-Omega. I could get a Cine-Rollex for the Technika, but I've never seen the point of shooting medium format on a 4x5, unless one needs the movements. Maybe I could warm up to the idea. If so, my preference would be for fp4+ and hp5+, not the Delta films. Progress be damned! :smile:
     
  23. FilmIs4Ever

    FilmIs4Ever Restricted Access

    Messages:
    377
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Location:
    Cleveland, O
    I think the big, looming problem with 70mm is the cassettes at this point. Mags will last more-or-less indefinitely, but there is an aging supply of 70mm cassettes on the market. I've bought an amply amount on the Bay, but long-term, if it dries up, it could be a problem.

    Sure you can replace the felt, but the METAL can be a problem. Paint flakes off of it when you tape around the ends for fear of light leaks from warped metal connections, and this can cause dust and dirt. Plus paint fleck makes for an even looser fit and there is no protection from further metal ware.

    Kodak used to make them, but no longer, and we all know how Kodak is about sharing old technology with other companies. Linhof also used to maake them. If they are still in business as the same company there might be a chance of getting a batch manufactured. After all, they are just hunks of metal.

    Even better, though less likely, would be to make them from plastic, like with the screw-top caps. IDK with the tar-drop top shape if it would be possible to engineer a design with a screw top. And a new spec. would be costly.

    Does anyone know if there were/are any other manufacturers of the cassettes?

    Maybe it would be possible to get an aerial photography company, as they still use 70mm, to go in with individual purchasers on a cassette order.


    As to wanting Hp5 over Delta, why haven't you been getting Tri-X all this time? Whereas with color films, it is easy to see a different, B&W films of the same type are far more subtle and difficult to tell apart, unless it is physically poor like some of Kodak's papers used to be. Ilford beat them hands-down there.
     
  24. Martin Reed

    Martin Reed Advertiser

    Messages:
    325
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2004
    Location:
    North London
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Tri-X keeps getting quoted, but can anybody give a 7 digit Kodak catalogue code for perforated 70mm Tri-X film, which is reasonably easily available? Rather than looking for crumbs off the table, remnants from industrial 70mm applications, wouldn't it be better to try to get a steady supply of conventional camera films?

    One reason for pushing the 70mm 'envelope' is it is at present a dying format, BUT the remnants are still around, plenty of 70mm backs, at least for Hasselblad, and it wouldn't take much to at least keep it hanging on in there. Then it is a viable alternative if various 120 films start to be wound up, principally because it can be cut from the same stock as 35mm films. Fantasising a little, Ektar 100 could be made available in 70mm format very easily!
     
  25. FilmIs4Ever

    FilmIs4Ever Restricted Access

    Messages:
    377
    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2004
    Location:
    Cleveland, O
    Hi Martin. I don't know the CAT # OTOH, but I know that there is one. I think it *may* eventually disappear, not from discontinuation, per se, but because of an un-Godly high minimum order.

    There is new stuff still at B&H. I'm not talking about 30-year expired shit sitting in someone's freezer (OR FRIDGE!) that still "good as new" ;-)

    Actually checking on B&H's site right now, it isn't listed anymore. I just don't think it would be wise to introduce an identical product if it is still available. I will check with my Kodak "insider", just to make sure on this though.

    I agree with you that 70mm is an exciting format for making it easier to bring 35mm only films into 70mm.
     
  26. europanorama

    europanorama Member

    Messages:
    174
    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2004
    Shooter:
    Med. Format Pan
    different sizes-not only 70mm

    i would offer the best films-delta 100/400 in different sizes. all without paper.

    70mm DP, 70 UP, 35MM UP, 120/220 all long roll 30m.
    HEWES
    can the hewes-70mm-reel be loaded in jobo-2500-tanks?