Ilford Film Order, Who's in Charge Here?

Discussion in '[Partner] ILFORD PHOTO' started by wfwhitaker, Jan 4, 2007.

  1. wfwhitaker

    wfwhitaker Member

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    The deadline for the Ilford sheet film special order is nigh and the presumed main player in all of this, JandC Photo, remains completely incommunicado. Yes, yes, I know all about their move. But I am the customer here. I am the one footing the bill and I can't get the time of day. All I would like is some reassurance that everything is on track. But everything I observe indicates otherwise.

    JandC Photo announced their move to new quarters and on their website state that they plan to return for business on January 15, 2007. This is coincidentally the same day as the deadline for the Ilford sheet film offer. That leaves damn little time - as in none - for customers to resolve any issues or questions they might have about ordering. JandC Photo does not answer emails, PM's or [attempted] telephone calls. Some six weeks ago I wrote a post inquiring as to how I was to place an order with a company which wasn't answering emails and had disconnected their telephones. That thread has since disappeared from the Sponsors Forum and I was able only to find it by doing a search. Not really surprising then that no one, including the firms who will profit by my expediture, has bothered to answer.

    And where did the thread go? Why is it not still in the Sponsors Forum? The deadline for this has not yet passed. It is still germane. Why has it been removed from public view? Sean?

    To further complicate matters, there is this thread, opened by Simon Galley who states that Ilford's distributor in the U.S. will be Wynit, Inc. What makes this disturbing is the last post (as I write), from Fred Newman/The View Camera Store, himself a sponsor of APUG, in which he states that Wynit, Inc. is not aware of the Ilford sheet film offer.

    Are you kidding me? Wynit is not aware of the film offer? If this is true, then who is handling this? Here I am, poised to spend hundreds of my hard-earned dollars to purchase film and the supposed U.S. distributor for Ilford doesn't know anything about it? And the key player in all of this isn't answering emails; isn't updating his web site; and has disconnected his telephone lines? And pertinent APUG threads are disappearing from the forum?

    I can tell you right now that none of this fills me with confidence. Understand that I would be happy (and I want) to purchase film. And I'm happy to support the businesses involved. But the customer is just being left completely in the dark here with his wallet open. Could somebody please step up to the plate and give us the facts?
     
  2. BarryWilkinson

    BarryWilkinson Subscriber

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  3. noseoil

    noseoil Member

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    Golly fellas, sounds like you both need to set up your own business and make the order work out on your own.

    I can't and won't apologize for J&C's lack of communication, but I can say that they have a full plate and are hard-pressed with the move, inventory, ordering and bills to pay like we all have. Add to this a new building, construction costs, schedules, staffing and hopefully you can see the other side of things. If John is putting the order together, I imagine he will be back in communication, once the dust from the move settles. He has done a lot to help us all with our film needs, perhaps it is time to allow him a bit of leeway to get the business up and running again.

    When I had a problem with some 8x10 sheet film (which was cut incorrectly at the factory) a few years back, he was right there and no questions were asked as it was replaced at his cost. It just seems to me that we might try to extend the same courtesy when he needs a bit of time.

    I suggest you both invest in a large walk-in freezer and then stock up, once the order gets placed. In the mean time, 35mm is cheap to buy and shoot. Why not polish up those ULF skills with a 35mm camera? tim

    P.S. Sorry to twist a nose or two, but life goes on.
     
  4. wfwhitaker

    wfwhitaker Member

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    No. This is business and there needs to be accountability. And besides, I have been patient until now. If I am being asked to ante up a large amount of money, I need some reassurance that the mechanism is in place to produce the goods. I sat down to the computer last night with the credit card out and was ready to place an order until I saw the post claiming that the U.S. distributor is not even aware of the sheet film offer. If true, then that is simply inexcusable.

    I honestly hope I'm getting worked up over nothing. I need film. And I'm willing to pay for it. But until I have something more to go on than sheer speculation ("I imagine..."), I'm not putting one penny on the table.
     
  5. BarryWilkinson

    BarryWilkinson Subscriber

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    My remarks were mainly aimed at Ilford who are not responding to genuine concerns. Its not Ilford moving, Galley could answer these questions but obviously chooses not too. Do Ilford really want to cut ULF Film? Does not look like it to me.

    As far as J&C are concerned, I have had good service from them in the past, even living here in the UK. However, in my opinion they should have someone available at the end of a telephone line answering queries, no matter how busy they may be. Its extremely bad business to be out of communications totally for around two months.

    Barry
     
  6. noseoil

    noseoil Member

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    We all "vote" with our money. I can understand the sense of frustration, but there seems to be a lack of communication in several directions here. When I bought my 4x5 Shen Hao, Badger was the "only" distributor in the US. It turns out that the camera was also marketed by others here in the states. Was there an exclusive distributorship, or was it just what Badger was told by Shen Hao?

    It seems possible that in the interim, Ilford has made other arrangements for distribution of their products. There may also be several distributors who deal with different segments of the US market. This seems unlikely, but markets and trends change rapidly in today's world. Sounds like wait and see is about the best we can do at this point. Best, tim
     
  7. wfwhitaker

    wfwhitaker Member

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    I sent a PM to Simon last evening (EST) with a link to this thread and a request for clarification.
     
  8. Rob Skeoch

    Rob Skeoch Advertiser Advertiser

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    Since everyone is stirring up the pot, I'm an APUG sponsor.
    I just order Ilford film from Wynit and they send it over. They've never asked me about special cutting in the ULF sizes but I do have some stock in HP5 in the following sizes... 4x5, 8x10, 11x14, 7x17, 8x20, 12x20. I usually have 5x7 as well but Tony Hauser bought all my stock yesterday.
    In case your desperate.
    -Rob
     
  9. frednewman

    frednewman Advertiser Advertiser

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    I've placed a call to our Wynit rep this morning and he still hasn't heard anything. He gave me the number for someone with Harman (Ilford) here in the States and I've left a message.

    Also forwarded a link to this thread to Simon at Harmon UK so I hope we'll get an answer soon.

    Fred Newman
     
  10. doughowk

    doughowk Subscriber

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    There appears to be several sources for the Ilford special order. Hunts PhotoVideo has listed on their eBay Store the Ilford ULF film sizes available. I talked to Chris who confirmed that they are participating in the order thru Wynet.
     
  11. Oren Grad

    Oren Grad Subscriber

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    Thanks, Doug.
     
  12. frednewman

    frednewman Advertiser Advertiser

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    Dennis just had a very nice chat with Eric Luden with Harman (Ilford) in the US. He made it clear that Ilford will continue to support the ULF shooter and will publish details about the next special run shortly. They are still working those detail out. Tentatively there will be a month long ordering window with delivery in March. So forget the Jan 15th deadline and stay tuned for details from Simon, most likely in the next week or so.

    No ULF shooter will be left behind! :smile:

    Fred Newman
     
  13. doughowk

    doughowk Subscriber

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    I think an important question to ask a supplier is whether you'll actually have for sale Ilford ULF film after this initial order. Being new to ULF, I have no idea how much Ilford film I'll be using over the next year. I'd be willing to pay more to a supplier who stocks their freezer with Ilford.
     
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  15. Oren Grad

    Oren Grad Subscriber

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    And thank you Fred, for following up.
     
  16. Curt

    Curt Subscriber

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    JandC probably has received thousands of emails and attempts to be reached. In response they probably have folded to the response as it would be impossible to answer so many a question. Announcements or updates would have been nice but we don't run the company. We don't run Ilford and when they want us to know something they will tell us. Aren't you grateful they offer film, paper and chemicals? Where else would you go without them, Kodak?
     
  17. kjsphoto

    kjsphoto Subscriber

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    If you cant get any response from them at all try someone else. Contact Freestyle and see if they can work something out for you, I don't shoot ULF so I have no idea about the film, but they always have 8x10 and down in stock.
     
  18. BarryWilkinson

    BarryWilkinson Subscriber

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    Forte, Bergger, Gemany, China...

    I'm sorry but Ilford are a business, I don't need to be grateful, they are not doing it to help us out, they do it to make a profit.

    Fortunately I don't need them any more, I am just very annoyed at the c**p marketing from a company here in the UK.

    I have no further comment about J&C.

    Barry
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2007
  19. Terence

    Terence Member

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    Maybe it's just me, but when J&C said they would be incommunicado for two months, I took it to mean they'd be incommunicado for two months. See:

    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum172/33246-when-will-jandc-get-restocked.html

    They were terminating their old call center service, and would be traveling a lot. New orders will be on hold until they reopen.
    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum146/33347-were-moving-expanding.html

    When the move is complete they'll be able to answer your questions.
    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum146/30761-changes-j-c.html

    Get over it, people. The world is not at your beck and call every minute of the day. Yes, businesses should try to please their customers. They can do this by keeping you informed. This was done. If you don't want to do the research, don't smear others.

    I've seen similar complaints about B&H being closed on Saturdays. "I can't order my film when I want . . . wahhhhhhhhh ! I can't order my new lens when I want . . . wahhhhhhh !"

    Plan accordingly, and quit your whining.
     
  20. wfwhitaker

    wfwhitaker Member

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    The initial post of this thread expressed concern about a lot more than J&C. This is not specifically a thread about J&C and it is not - and should not be - intended to "smear" anybody. Please don't twist this thread into something it isn't.

    I simply want to take advantage of an offer advertised by J&C. But there are some other circumstances which are red flags, most notably that the Ilford U.S. distributor, Wynit, Inc. claims no knowledge of the film order. We're not talking about two or three bucks here. My order will be the better part of a thousand dollars. That's a lot of money to me. While there remains a legitimate concern about the means by which the goods will be delivered I'm not about to go committing to an expediture of that size without first researching it. So I AM doing my research. I am not "whining", but asking some very legitimate questions. It would be very helpful if Ilford themselves would make a public statement.
     
  21. langedp

    langedp Member

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    Looks like J&C has an update on their home page regarding this order...
     
  22. ReallyBigCameras

    ReallyBigCameras Advertiser Advertiser

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    Nutshell: No definite re-opening date. Expect to be down another 3 - 6 months (bummer).

    Will not participate in the current Ilford ULF offer, suggests contacting other participating vendors.

    Contacting Kodak on Monday to check on unfulfilled orders from last year's ULF program. Will try to get Kodak to finally deliver the film they accepted orders and payments for last January. If not, will issue refunds by the end of the month.

    Kerry
     
  23. Cecil

    Cecil Member

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    How to contact J&C for unshipped orders?

    Another 3 to 6 months!

    I was hoping that J&C would open on the 15th so that I could call to see what went wrong with the order I placed at the end of October. I have not received any shipment and there is no way to contact them.

    Anyone else having trouble with the very last orders before J&C closed for expansion? Do you know how to contact them to resolve shipment problems?
     
  24. Alicouscous

    Alicouscous Member

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    3-6 months ??
    hum hum, in my humble opinion they'll never re-open ....not enough money ...too much debts .
    It looks better contraction than expansion from their activities .
    I'Hope they will refund everyone who have ordered to them :-((((
     
  25. JBrunner

    JBrunner Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    It never ceases to amaze me how no good deeds go unpunished, where internet forums are concerned.

    I have been dealing with John for a long time, and I will give him the benefit of the doubt, and take him at his word. His word has been impeccable.

    AFAIK there appear to be a few unresolved orders in association with Kodaks lack of performance on the Tmax deal, and thats about all, which John states will be resolved on the 8th, and refunds issued by the end of the month if needed.

    JandC let everybody know well in advance that they were closing to expand and relocate. They also let everyone know the reopening has been delayed, and passed the Ilford ULF order to other vendors.

    How incredibly boorish of somebody on the other side of the world to engage in complete speculation, and utter gossip about somebody they have no idea about.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 7, 2007
  26. Alicouscous

    Alicouscous Member

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    When the wind changes, sometime the innocent bird becomes a hungry wolf .