Ilford Pan F Plus in Pyrocat HD... Help

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by aleksmiesak, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. aleksmiesak

    aleksmiesak Member

    Messages:
    120
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Location:
    Bozeman, MT
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I decided to spend my Christmas amazon gift card I got from work on some film. I decided to give Pan F plus 120 a shot. I usually shoot FP4/HP5 and stew them in Pyrocat HD which I love. I also like that these films/developer combination are in the Massive Dev app for easy use. But that combination isn't there for Pan F (except pyrocat M which i don't have). Any tips on how to shoot/develop with Pyrocat HD? I don't really want to change my developer so even though I've seen people loving the Pan F/Rodinal combination I would really like to stick to what I already have/like.

    Thanks!
    Aleks
     
  2. George Collier

    George Collier Member

    Messages:
    1,066
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Location:
    Richmond, VA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You can find another, more broadly used film, like one of the two you usually shoot, and make a relative comparison of development times with the two developers you mention, from another chart, or source. Then apply the same difference factor to your time with either of the two films you reference. It may be not be perfect, but you'll probably be able to print them, because the reference time is based on yours, not someone elses.
    There is always the choice - find the final exposure and development recipe for a new film/developer combo over several rolls of normal shooting and tweaking, or just sacrifice one roll, bracket exposures over the whole roll (three sections, each with bracketed exposures), same subject and light, then process the three sections of film at three different times to establish a matrix of combinations, one of which should be very close.
     
  3. Klainmeister

    Klainmeister Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2010
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Aleks, you have made a great choice in Pyrocat HD and Pan F. It is more contrasty than the other films you list, but because of the characteristics of Pyro, you often times get a very useful neg that is easy to control in the printing session.

    For a standard contrast scene (normal daylight, nothing special), I would try 12-14 minutes at 72f 1:1:100 if you are printing with VC papers. I've haven't used graded papers with this combo, but I would suspect you'd need to shorten your time considerably. Shoot a roll and develop with the above times and go and try to print at grade 2 or 3. I think you'll be very impressed with the results.
     
  4. aleksmiesak

    aleksmiesak Member

    Messages:
    120
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Location:
    Bozeman, MT
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thank you both for fast reply. I will start out with your recipe Klainmeister and adjust from there. I do use VC papers and adjust with filters so I know I'll be able to get prints as long as they are developed relatively well. So all I needed was a starting point to get going on experimentation.
     
  5. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

    Messages:
    7,396
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Location:
    northern Pa.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    My records show P-cat-HD 1+1+100 for 15 mins @ 20c shot at box speed. YMMV, but it's a starting point.
     
  6. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

    Messages:
    2,131
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    YMMV, but I only get an EI of 20 with Pan-F 120 in my Bronicas.
     
  7. Klainmeister

    Klainmeister Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2010
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Interesting. In the field I couldn't tell a rats a$$ difference between 50, 40, 25 unless it had seriously deep shadows. But then exposure adjustment comes into play.

    How are you printing?
     
  8. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

    Messages:
    2,131
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'm printing in a darkroom, (is there another way?). I get an EI of 50 when shooting PF in 35, but only 20 when shooting it in 120 size. I've "tested" my Bronicas against hand-held meters and my 35's with a gray card and all are withing 1/2 stop of each other. I think PF in 120 is an entirely different beast than in 35, but once I worked out the EI, no problem.
     
  9. Klainmeister

    Klainmeister Member

    Messages:
    1,493
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2010
    Location:
    Santa Fe, NM
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I meant on graded or VC paper, etc. Soooooorrry!
     
  10. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

    Messages:
    2,131
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    No apology necessary. I'm doing VC/RC paper, mostly. Yes, the print may be/ should be used as the final judge, but I often go on how the neg looks, too. Anything other than EI 20 with PF in 120 size give me a thin neg, even with a divided dev.

    Perhaps it's me and my process, IDK, but I thought I'd pass along the info. The OP may get something very different.
     
  11. aleksmiesak

    aleksmiesak Member

    Messages:
    120
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Location:
    Bozeman, MT
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks for all the feedback. I'll be careful with my exposures and will bracket the first roll. So this way I can fine tune everything after that.
     
  12. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

    Messages:
    4,595
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Because Pan F has such a short straight line section it needs much more careful exposure and dev than
    some films, and sometimes a modified formula if you are working in bright scenes. A staining pyro helps brings int the highlights very nicely. I don't use pyrocat but PMK: ASA 25 / PMK 1:1: 100 / 6 min
    @ 20C. Works best in softer light, or at least, not extreme brightness ranges. Pan F just won't dig deep
    down in the shadows - too much toe.
     
  13. aleksmiesak

    aleksmiesak Member

    Messages:
    120
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Location:
    Bozeman, MT
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks Drew, good info to have before I get out there and ruin a roll :smile:
     
  14. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

    Messages:
    4,595
    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2011
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Don't get me wrong. I've gotten some wonderful mtn prints from PanF 120, but mainly on those days
    when the light was a bit softened by mist or rain or falling snow. It's nice on our foggy beach days too.
    But it's a poor choice if you want to dig way down into harsh high altitude shadows in bright sun and
    preserve the sparkle of highlights at the same time. You won't get much differentiation below Zone III,
    if you are into Zone System ideology. I use Efke 25 for extreme range work in small cameras - but with it going away, am going to compromise with Fuji ACROS instead. Pan F has a special look, so can be very rewarding - the highlights and upper mids can really open up with pryo - but it takes awhile to optimize this per exp & dev technique. Be aware it has poor latent image characteristics, so develop it fairly soon after exposure, not several months later!
     
  15. erikg

    erikg Member

    Messages:
    1,461
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2003
    Location:
    pawtucket rh
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Check out what Simon Galley has to say about the latent image characteristics of Pan-F+:

    "Latent image stability, a real issue on papers and films, both colour and monochrome some are better than others but by and large they are all amazingly stable especially when you consider the LI performance of 50 years ago. If we talk about PAN F + when the ( all new ) plus emulsions were introduced, one major improvement was latent image stability. I should know, but I don't where PAN F + comes in LI performance compared to our other film emulsions but I will speak to our technical service, they will advise me and I will let you know in the next day or so. "....

    I've long had the idea that Pan-F had an issue in this regard, but perhaps not.
     
  16. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,143
    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2012
    Location:
    Connecticut,
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    It's still an issue and Ilford reps have stated on the forum that so long as you develop within 3 months of shooting the film, you should have no worries.

    It's one of those ... You deal with it because its such a great film.. Things IMHO

    Also, why not just look at the times between HP5+ and FP4+ and half that time and subtract it from the FP4+ they are similar-ish films from the same company so the dev times should be a lot that much less of a stop from FP4+ to PanF+

    It's a good starting point at least.

    Good luck! I love it in Ilfsol 3 and Rodinal 1+50 :smile:


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. aleksmiesak

    aleksmiesak Member

    Messages:
    120
    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Location:
    Bozeman, MT
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks for mentioning that. I think I remember reading about the LI issue a while back but it somehow slipped my mind. I generally process my negs within a few days to max of 2 weeks from shooting. So I shouldn't have problems with LI. But at least now I'll have that in mind and especially remember that timing is a little more important with this film.

    Thanks!