ILFORD ULF Make : Poor Level Of Orders [But Ilford comes through in the end!]

Discussion in '[Partner] ILFORD PHOTO' started by Simon R Galley, Mar 19, 2007.

  1. Simon R Galley

    Simon R Galley Subscriber

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    Dear All,

    Just to let you know we have now collated the orders received : Total number of orders received is 87 packets of 25...only one SKU has actually made the minimum order quantity, its actually a little over 6 packets ordered per item by SKU :

    Firstly, I would like to thank our ULF reseller partners, as always they have done a great job, at the end of the day they can only order what people order from them.

    I would also like to thank the people who have ordered. I think the only practical thing we can do is extend the ULF ordering to the end of the month and this we will do, if we fail to get further significant orders or increased orders we will then need to decide what to do.

    The issue that we face is that orders are less than a 20% of what we finished and shipped last year, perhaps it does starkly show that when we say we do this as a 'service' to the ULF community this result does focus minds, as I am sure you realise the amount of time we and our reseller partners have already spent trying to organise this programme.

    Perhaps it shows that we only need to do this once every two years ( well within the life of the film ) but as I have said, we will wait and review the level of orders by the end of the month and communicate what we intend to do about this make then, we obviously do not wish to disadvantage those who have ordered, but to finish this level of packs would not even cover the
    cost of the boxes.

    Once again thanks to all of you who have ordered and value ILFORD Photo film products:

    Kind Regards

    Simon. ILFORD photo / HARMAN technology Limited
     
  2. Steve_7x

    Steve_7x Member

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    Simon,

    I can say that I appreciate your efforts in trying to make this program or service work and to become a reality. I am saddened that participation is not stronger. I had placed my order and it exceeded my personal budget and looks to be a sizable portion of the packs ordered - I certainly expected to be dwarfed - but I felt compelled to order to insure that film was cut and made available. I also appreciate the offer to extend the order period. I hope that those that sat on the fence will step in and make the 2007 offer work.

    IF the extension does not work - is it possible to set-up a time or a set of milestones leading to a new order period in 2008? My sense is that if folks now the period is coming up in advance they can set aside money etc... Plan and budget for purchasing film etc... This go around came up very suddenly, and I felt un preparred for it. I just bit the bullet and placed my order. Others may not have been so cavalier.

    On the other hand you may be right... maybe it's an every two year event. I t may also be that some suppliers bought on speculation. My sense is that J&C did so... when I placed an order for 7x17 Wynit had it in stock. Without that speculation purchase - and perhaps other factors there could be a drop in the level of orders.

    Cheers and thansk again! I hope this go round does not sour the Ilford/Harman management team on the commitment of ULF and odball format shooters to your film.

    Steve
     
  3. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    What Steve said may be the case, since I also ordered 7x17" and it happened to be in stock. Out of curiosity, just how much 7x17" does Wynit have?

    I just acquired a camera to shoot this format, but once I'm up and running with it, I don't see it becoming my main format, though there are a few people out there who just see the world as a panorama or perhaps a long narrative or live someplace like a coastal area where long and thin fits the landscape perfectly and shoot quite a lot of it.
     
  4. Simon R Galley

    Simon R Galley Subscriber

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    Dear Steve and Dave,

    We are not upset in the least....its a fact of life, why some stock may have been available is simple, if we have orders for 27 and the box make is 40 we may choose to fill and keep in stock.

    Like I say we are very aware of the cost of some of these items, we are well aware of peoples budgets, so we will wait till the end of the month and we will study your feedback and decide what to do for the best.

    Kind Regards

    Simon.
     
  5. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

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    Yikes!
    Thanks for the update, Simon. I also appreciate what Ilford and their partners are doing for the ULF community and the film community as a whole.

    I placed an order, but it was a smaller order than the one I placed last year. Mainly because I haven't gone through the film that I bought last year. I also ordered some 6.5 x 8.5 film and was informed that two boxes of it were on their way to me last week. I will have to consider whether I can order some more film at this time or not.
     
  6. big_ben_blue

    big_ben_blue Member

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    My problem with those special orders is simply their "special here and now" nature. I am currently in a position where I have to turn over every penny twice; so putting in a huge order for a full year's or two supply is above my possibilities, especially at the end of the S L O W winter season; can't kill a dead piggy bank twice. I guess, both we the consumers and Ilford are stuck between a rock and a hard place - for one it has to make economical sense to do a production run, but the small core consumer base is evidently putting a damper on things as our Dollars are evidently limited.
     
  7. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Simon (and others):

    Would it be practicable* to have an "expression of interest" process whereby photographers could commit to purchase a particular size at any time when a certain minimum quantity of orders were reached? That could run continuously, and wouldn't require every ULF photographer to be on exactly the same schedule. It might also facilitate pooling of orders.

    Matt

    *practicable (UK) = practical (US) IIRC
     
  8. Rob Vinnedge

    Rob Vinnedge Member

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    Simon,

    I am somewhat surprised by the low order. My sense was that it would be higher, based on the fact that there seems to be so much more stirring in the world of ULF. However, I do realize that many of us have substantial stockpiles from last year. I ordered five boxes of 14X17 and two boxes of 16X20 this year and will double that, now that you've extended the deadline.

    I think Matt has a good idea regarding the "expression of interest" process. Probably many of us would order more film if finances correlated with the production schedule.


    Thank you very much for the notification. You can count on me as a loyal customer. I will be able to place a consistent order with you at least once a year.

    Sincerely,

    Rob Vinnedge
     
  9. Oren Grad

    Oren Grad Subscriber

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    Simon, thanks for the update and for all your efforts.

    I'm confused. In this post, Fred Newman reported that he alone had placed an order for 150 boxes.

    At any rate, I have two questions:

    First, is there a way to find out for a given format how far short you are from the MOQ, so we can figure out how much we would need to add to our orders and whether we can afford to do it?

    And second, if someone is willing to meet the MOQ for one of these non-standard sizes single-handedly, are you able to take orders at other times?

    Thanks again - let's see if we can figure out a way to make this work!
     
  10. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    My guess is that some portion of the 150 boxes was for film that Wynit already had in stock from the last special order.
     
  11. Rob Vinnedge

    Rob Vinnedge Member

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    Simon,

    I'm with Oren on this. It might be easier for us to try to come up with the deficit in any particular size than to just blindly order with the hope that all orders will then proceed.

    Also, single MOQ's at any time of the year would certainly be attractive to some photographers who work in only one or two formats. This would probably be the best way for me to order.

    Sincerely,

    Rob Vinnedge
     
  12. Curt

    Curt Subscriber

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    Simon, isn't it time to focus on the rest of the photographic community? All of the focus on ULF isn't good for business. The only reason I would have to buy ULF is to cut it down to 5x7. If you want to subsidize the ULF then produce and sell a complete product line in smaller film sizes and emulsions.
     
  13. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    5x7" FP4+, and HP5+ are stock items that don't require a special order. B&H has them both in stock and can order Delta 100, as do other dealers, I suspect.
     
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  15. Oren Grad

    Oren Grad Subscriber

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    No doubt. Taking into account that some of us ordered from other dealers, the total order submitted would have had to be greater than 150 boxes*. Against that, the fact that the net new order was so small would imply that Wynit was carrying a substantial stock from last year.

    (*Yes, I realize that even an order of 250 or 300 boxes can't be considered large from Harman's perspective if it's distributed across ten or fifteen formats.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2007
  16. Terence

    Terence Member

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    Another vote with Oren. If I knew 8x20 was only two boxes from meeting the minimum, I'd figure a way to swing it.
     
  17. mammolo

    mammolo Member

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    Same here in the 14x17 size. I ordered two boxes of FP4 and two boxes of HP5+, but I could settle on either one if that helped to go above the minimum order per film/size.
     
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  18. CRhymer

    CRhymer Subscriber

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    Simon,
    I too am with Oren on this. I stocked up on ULF during JandC's sale, but I might buy a box or two if it made the difference.

    Cheers,
    Clarence
     
  19. Sal Santamaura

    Sal Santamaura Member

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    And Badger offers 5x7 Delta 100 in single box quantities too:

    http://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1995

    I'm not sure what is gained by disparaging the non-standard sizes special order program. All Ilford panchromatic emulsions are available in 5x7 except Pan F Plus and Delta 3200; Simon has already posted that the former never will be and Ilford is giving serious consideration to the latter. In 35mm and 120, it's all available.

    More constructive use of bandwidth might be, as others above have done, to seek the root cause of this shortfall. I strongly suspect dealer/distributor stockpiling last time played a major role. Prime contender is the apparent total lack of dealer/distributor advertising that those sizes continued to be available from "stock."
     
  20. CRhymer

    CRhymer Subscriber

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    Could be, but I have to add that in Canada Rob Skeoch kept people advised of his in stock items before the price increase and present order and as I recall some of that was ULF. I have never bought from him nor have any connection except being on his mailing list.

    Cheers,
    Clarence
     
  21. Colin Graham

    Colin Graham Member

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    Great ideas, Oren. I'll even gladly order a compatible size and cut it down, just tell me where to put my bottlecaps
     
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  22. ReallyBigCameras

    ReallyBigCameras Advertiser Advertiser

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    David,

    I think you may be right. Two of the three sizes of FP4+ I ordered (7x17 and 14x17 - the third being 4x10) were already in stock at Wynit. If I had known those were stock items, I might have managed my order a little differently by throwing more of my money at 4x10 and maybe 7x11 in order to meet the minimums for those sizes. Due to the relatively high cost of the 14x17 and 7x17 film, at this point, I'm pretty much tapped out on my film budget, but if we're close to meeting the minimum for 4x10, I may be willing to break my piggy bank and order a couple more boxes.

    Kerry
     
  23. argus

    argus Member

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    I guess you all exposed way too little negatives during the last year. I did ;-)

    G
     
  24. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    I have not placed an order for 6 1/2 x 8 1/2 because of a current lack of available film holders. As this situation is about to change, I would be happy to order some if it will help make the minimum quantity. If the quantity burden is too great, I'll have to pass for this year.
     
  25. photo8x10

    photo8x10 Member

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    I put my little order for 2 boxes of 8x20, I did it before I have my 8x20 camera, that I will have at the end of April, so I decide to make an effort to buy two film boxes,(the camera is a bit expensive),and I have to learn to use this new format, but I'm sure in the future I'm able to put an order bigger than now....
    Thanks ILFORD......

    Best

    Stefano
     
  26. Rob Skeoch

    Rob Skeoch Advertiser Advertiser

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    This is how it's been for me.
    As a dealer I try to stock 11x14, 7x17, 8x20 and 12x20 in the ULF sizes in HP5. Usually only a box or two, but I'm in Canada so the demand is lighter.
    When they sell I add them to my next order of 8x10 and 5x7 films. Working this way I've been able to keep each of these in stock.
    In Jan. I ordered five boxes of 7x17 for a client but only two shipped and the other 3 were backordered. Whynit was then out of 7x17 until the next shipment from England or the next run of film I'm not sure.
    It was like that for the past few weeks, but I got notice this week that they just shipped a partial shipment of 7x17. So they've got some more in from somewhere.
    Films like 8x20, although part of the ULF order, were shipped right away so they had those in stock as well. I also had a box of 10x12 Ortho on order that shipped right away.
    As a dealer I was surprised how few orders I received before the deadline, but then I wasn't involved in last years go-round, and I'm in Canada and may be my price wasn't competitive... I never compared what anyone else was selling for.
    As far as 5x7 goes, I'm able to stock both HP5 and FP4 but the Delta 100 has a minimal order of too many boxes. I would like to carry it if it was avalable one at a time, but really Delta 100 doesn't sell near as much as the other two films anyway. In fact in 8x10 I'm my best customer.
    -Rob
    www.bigcameraworkshops.com