Ilford Warmtone paper with Ilford Warmtone Developer- not very warm?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by TheFlyingCamera, Jun 15, 2013.

  1. TheFlyingCamera

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    I decided to do some enlarging today, for the first time in a long time (all this shooting with my Rolleiflex got me back into the idea of making some silver-gelatin enlargements). Maybe I've been completely corrupted by how warm a palladium print is in comparison, but I broke out the Ilford Warmtone developer I had stashed (thank you, Simon Galley!), and I ran a few prints on Ilford Multigrade Warmtone paper. To my eye, they're not very warm - more like just not cold. Is this what I should expect, or is there something wrong? Anyone out there have any experience with this combination?
     
  2. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    I get that same result. WT paper base has some definite cream tone but the emulsion itself doesn't really turn warm. Not cold however....

    I really didn't see much difference between Dektol and Ilford WT developer.
     
  3. Barry S

    Barry S Member

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    Scott, I think what you're seeing is normal. It's a subtle (but definite) warmtone effect. If you enlarge on a sheet of the regular multigrade and compare, you'll see the difference. If you want some more pronounced warmth, I recommend the DuPont 6T (thiocarb) toning system--it'll give a wide range of obvious warm tones. Are you finishing with selenium? That seems to deepen the blacks and slightly increase the overall warmth.
     
  4. TheFlyingCamera

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    I haven't toned anything yet. They're still either on the drying screen or in the final wash. I did pick up a bottle of Ilford Selenium toner to try. I'll also give a whirl at printing some tomorrow on my remaining old stock of Bergger VCCB, which gets much warmer in warmtone developers.
     
  5. rorye

    rorye Subscriber

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    I get some fairly chocolatey tones from that combination but I'm getting even warmer with MGWT in LPD stock.
    Perhaps not as warm as a straight pd but that has it's variables too I suppose.
     
  6. JLP

    JLP Subscriber

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    Also my experience. I like the Ilford WT paper a lot, it is one of, if not my favorite paper but I would like to see it warmer. Selenium toning helps a bit but this paper is not easy to tone.
    Maybe I will give the LPD a try, thanks for the tip.
     
  7. TheFlyingCamera

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    [​IMG]

    Here's the more successful of the two good prints I got out of yesterday's session. It actually comes across warmer in the scan than it is in real life.

    This is more typical:

    [​IMG]
     
  8. frotog

    frotog Member

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    Higher temps, shorter times will give you warmer tones.
     
  9. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

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    try foma #542 paper
     
  10. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    I've had good warm tones with the paper, you need to cut dev times to a minimum and increase exposure to get more warmth. I don't process for longer tthan a minute when I require maximum warmth.

    Ian
     
  11. Neal

    Neal Subscriber

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    Warmth must be in the eyes of the beholder. I think the second one has a very warm tone. :>)

    Neal Wydra
     
  12. TheFlyingCamera

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    What I mean when I'm talking about warm is that I'm expecting blacks and mid tones with a chocolatey undertone. The highlights, especially on the first one, are definitely there, in the scan. I'll tell you that they're not that warm in the print, though. This is the problem with digitization of hard copies. I found that when trying to clean up the tones to match the original prints, I started getting some crossover and picking up other colors (greens in particular) that aren't there either, and are far less appealing.
     
  13. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    I read a post recently which is now some years old by Les McLean where he gives the following for WT papers in general in LPD: 1+2 neutral warm brown and 1+1 very dark brown to brown black. No examples shown in his post but to say "very dark brown" has to mean something. Might be worth a try with LPD

    In my own experience Ilford WT paper in Ilford WT developer was only a very subtle brown. In fact as I was doing a run of prints with this combination I had difficulty seeing any brown tones after I had done a few prints until I compared prints done in MGIV with MG developer and then the difference was clear.

    pentaxuser
     
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  15. pgomena

    pgomena Member

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    I used to mix a scratch batch of this warm tone developer for use with Ektalure. It gave very nice warm brown tones that turned a beautiful cool chocolate tone when toned in selenium. Yes, I know part of the equation is Ektalure, and Ilford warm tone paper is not as warm. Worth a try.

    GAF 135 Warm Tone Paper Developer

    Water: 750ml
    Metol: 1.6g
    Sodium Sulfite, dessicated: 24g
    Hydroquinone: 6.6g
    Sodium Carbonate, monohydrated: 24g
    Potassium Bromide: 2.8g*
    water to make: 1.0 liter total volume.

    Dilute 1:1 with water, develop 2-3 minutes at 68 degrees F. Dilute more for less contrast.

    *For warmer tone, Potassium Bromide may be increased up to 5.6 g/l. Do not exceed 5.6 g/liter.

    I usually used it at 5g/l of KBR.

    I think this formula came from the old Photo-Lab Index.
     
  16. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Subscriber

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    I am about to embark on continuing a graduate school project of printing the same negative on several papers with several different develpers and toners. This time I want to use Ilford WT, so I will let you know which combinations get warm.
     
  17. rorye

    rorye Subscriber

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    Here's MGWT in LPD stock, I can smell the chocolate

    http://www.apug.org/gallery1/showimage.php?i=72462&catid=member&imageuser=3613
     
  18. brian steinberger

    brian steinberger Subscriber

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    Why not just tone in a polysulfide toner, like Viradon, or Kodak brown toner? Beautiful chocolate brown tones..
     
  19. TheFlyingCamera

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    I could. A: I don't have any in stock right now, B: I was trying to use what's on hand, C: I wanted to see what could be done with the papers/developers at hand. I just did some prints this morning with the Bergger COT320 and the Ilford Warmtone developer, and they really aren't much different, except that the Bergger emulsion is a LOT slower than the Ilford (a good 2 stops slower). When the prints are dry, I'll scan in one to post.
     
  20. grahamp

    grahamp Subscriber

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    I have cooled off the highlights on Warmtone (in Warmtone) by using a potassium ferricyanide / potassium bromide bleach and then redeveloped in the same developer. Partial bleaching leaves warmer shadows by comparison.

    In theory substituting sodium chloride (adjusted proportion) for the potassium bromide is supposed to give a warmer tone on redevelopment, but my initial experiments have been inconclusive. I need to try again - I could use a warmer tone short of sepia processing or the reddish effect of selenium with this paper. of course, with my colour vision the effect has to be quite blatant :cool:
     
  21. TheFlyingCamera

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    SamH-MadMomos.jpg

    Here is a print with Bergger VCCB in Ilford Warmtone. Noticeably warmer (still not chocolate, but definitely not cool tone).
     
  22. Ghostman

    Ghostman Subscriber

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    The combination of Ilford WT paper and developer responds very well to bleaching/toning. I use it a lot and love it.
     
  23. c6h6o3

    c6h6o3 Member

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    Amidol also yields beautiful warm tones with Ilford MGWT paper.
     
  24. Steve Sherman

    Steve Sherman Subscriber

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    For years I used this exact GAF 135 formula, as stated with a max of 5g. of Kbr.

    Searching for more warmth, I discovered the following formula, a close brother to the above, however, definitely a warmer version. GAF 125 Developer, copied and pasted from my working notes.

    stored @ a 1/1 mixture w / H2O
    add 1 more H2O for 2/1 working mix
    or
    ¾ part water & ¾ part used Dev.

    mix Sulfite prior to Hydro & Sodium Carb

    Water @ 1200………………. 2000 ml
    Metol ………………………… 36 g
    Sodium Sulfite ……………… 528 g
    Hydroquinone ………………. 144 g
    Sodium Carbonate …………. 780 g
    Pot Bromide (Kbr) …………… 24 g

    Water to make ……………. 12000 ml


    As stated somewhere in this thread, for more warmth try substituting Pot. Carbonate for Sod. Carbonate, I did and saw no significant gain in warmth and a substantially slower acting developer as a result.

    Cheers,
     
  25. Zathras

    Zathras Subscriber

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    Has anybody tried this paper with Ansco-130?
     
  26. Zathras

    Zathras Subscriber

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