Ilfords equivalents?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by ChristopherCoy, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. ChristopherCoy

    ChristopherCoy Member

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    I'm planning on attempting a 52 roll project for 2013, and I want to switch from Kodak stuff to Ilford stuff to do it.

    I've been shooting TriX, and using XTOL, Dektol, Kodak Indicator Stopbath, and Kodak Fixer.

    Would the Ilford equivalent to the above be HP5, Ilfosol 3, Ilford Multigrade, and Ilford Rapid Fixer?

    Ilford doesn't make a stop bath, so I'll continue to use the rest of the Kodak that I still have until I find a replacement.

    I'd like to stick to Ilford brand stuff, but if there is something more comparable to XTOL than Ilfosol, I'm open to trying it.
     
  2. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Christopher:

    Ilford makes a very good citric acid based stop bath - Ilfostop, which I use for printing (I use Kodak indicator stop bath for film).

    I recommend either Ilford Rapid Fixer or Hypam in preference to Kodak Fixer. Kodak Rapid Fixer is closely equivalent to Ilford Rapid Fixer, except the Kodak Rapid Fixer is only sold with the hardener additive, in the quantities I use. Unfortunately (for some) the Rapid Fixers are liquid, so they can involve much more in shipping costs.

    I don't know that there is a close equivalent to XTol in the Ilford range.

    It seems to me that Bromophen is the closest equivalent to Dektol in the Ilford range.

    TriX and HP5+ are different, and if you combine a change in film with a change in developers, you will have changed a lot of variables. Not generally a good idea before starting a long project.

    Why change if you are happy with what you are using? The Kodak chemistry is manufactured by Champion, who are stable and long term The Kodak film is manufactured by the same people who are manufacturing the Kodak motion picture film - that contract remains lucrative and is guaranteed until at least 2015.
     
  3. adelorenzo

    adelorenzo Subscriber

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    Ilford makes Ilfostop stop bath, although AFAIK nothing but the film and developer is really critical to the final result.
     
  4. ChristopherCoy

    ChristopherCoy Member

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    Because I don't want to put it off for another two more years. I'd like to just switch, relearn a new film/chemistry setup, and move on.

    And I figured a 52 roll project would be a good motivator for me to do it with.
     
  5. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    As far as I've been able to discern from my limited scope of understanding, Ilfsol 3 is best used for the lower ASA ilford "traditional" grain films like Pan F+ and FP4 while DD-X is specifically for the full line of Delta series which has the T grain emulsion. As far as HP5, depends what you want, I know that Perceptol matched with HP5 gives a very fine grain for traditional grain high speed film like HP5, but at that point why not just shoot Delta 400 and DD-X developer?

    Why are you choosing the HP5 over Delta 400? That's your first question before you choose a developer to go with it, if you WANT the grain that HP5 can produce, then Ifsol S would work well on it, but I'm not sure how long they will still cary that line, since it was "replaced" by ilfsol 3, which is focused more on the lower ASA films. I plan to develop a roll of HP5 sitting in my fridge, I can develop it in Ilfsol 3 or DD-X and send you a full TIFF scan of one of the images if that might help? it's just christmas photos I believe... just let me know which chemistry :smile:
     
  6. albada

    albada Member

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  7. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    After looking xtol over a bit, it seems like Ilford's ID-11.

    Also, the "clone" isn't a clone it's just repackaged / relabeled xtol so that solution won't work, when Kodak stops producing developer, the clove won't be available either...


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    ID-11 is essentially D76 - significantly different from X-Tol.

    And as Kodak no longer manufactures XTol themselves (Champion does it for them) there is no reason to expect XTol to disappear.
     
  9. DriesI

    DriesI Member

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    I use Ilfosol 3 with HP5 and it works really well. No problem with grain. If you don't like grain, use Delta 100.
     
  10. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Subscriber

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    I recall that LC29 is supposed to be similar - I could be wrong so it will need investigating.

    EDIT: No it's not! LC29 is similar to HC110.


    Steve.
     
  11. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

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    HP 5 IMO is really nice once I get to MF or bigger, it is one of my staples in 4x5. For 35mm I'm not so sold. Bit grainier than I prefer. If you go with HP5 in 135, a dose of perceptol might be good but that slows it down a ways.

    So to keep things simple for fast film I use Delta 400 in DD-X on both MF and in 135. Shoot this at 500 normally but works fine from 200-2000 for what I do.

    The other combo I like real well is FP4 in DD-X. I shoot this at 125 normally, works fine for me from 25-250.
     
  12. K-G

    K-G Subscriber

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  13. Terry Christian

    Terry Christian Subscriber

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    XTOL has no Ilford equivalent, although Mark Overton linked to Freestyle's true Arista equivalent above.

    Ilford's DD-X is a completely different developer, but it will get you similar results, IMHO.
     
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  15. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    DDX has similar working properties to Kodak TMax (RS). There is no Ilford XTOL equivalent.
     
  16. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    One of the beauties of doing your own black-and-white is that you have so much freedom with chemistry. Since you're switching, now would be the time to investigate some non-proprietary developer formulas (many of which you can buy pre-mixed if you're averse to home-brewing from scratch). I'd look into Rodinal (or its equivalent), or my favorite, Pyrocat HD. You can get it from Bostick & Sullivan in a two-part kit, and all you have to do is add some hot water to the bottle for part A and you're ready to go. I use it with all my films, from Tmax 400 to FP4+. Try developing film in a pyro developer sometime and I promise you it'll be a revelation.
     
  17. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Mark,

    Why do you use DD-X with FP4 when Ilfsol 3 is the branded match? It's not.a Tgrain developer so just curious why you like DD-X over Ilfsol 3?


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  18. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    :sad: whoops. I was going off descriptions there, I ou have real world experience with Ilfsol 3 and DD-X


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. albada

    albada Member

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    What causes you to believe that this is relabelled XTOL? Please cite a reference if available. It surprises me that Kodak would permit such a thing in their contract with Champion.
    Assuming this really is relabelled XTOL, then as MattKing pointed out, even if Kodak shuts down, there would be no reason for Champion to stop supplying this developer to Freestyle (unless sales-volume would be too low to bother with).

    Mark Overton
     
  20. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Honesty can't cite a reference, but I remember reading a list of products that Were Arista labeled that were really Kodak, I could have sworn that was listed as well as tri-x being part of am the Arista line of film.

    I have no recollection as to where I read that, it was a while ago and I don't use it so I can't compare personally.

    Sorry to upset the balance here.


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  21. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    tha's my understanding too.
     
  22. erikg

    erikg Member

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    Champion does make chemistry for Freestyle, but I don't know how the arista xtol relates to the kodak branded stuff. It would be easy enough to test, and if it walks like a duck...
     
  23. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

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    I don't know where you are getting your info but according to Ilford DD-X provides; the best image quality, finest grain, and fastest speed for FP4.

    http://www.ilfordphoto.com/Webfiles/2010712125850702.pdf

    My personal experience with FP4 and DD-X has been really pleasing and really easy and really forgiving.
     
  24. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    Stone - actually ID-11 (D-76) is still the best overall "match" for FP4 (and virtually any other film!). DDX is recommended by Ilford for best overall image quality with FP4 in a liquid developer (as opposed to a powder mix). DDX is not just for Delta films. And it gives a little more film speed in general than ID-11. Beyond that it's just up to each photographer to work with the combo and decide if he is happy with the tonality, and the balance of sharpness, graininess and speed.

     
  25. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

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    I'll grant ID-11 is a really good developer but better than DD-X, says who? Got a reference for that?

    :whistling:
     
  26. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    http://www.ilfordphoto.com/products/product.asp?n=63&t=Film+Developers

    That's where I read that Ilfsol 3 was the match for FP4...


    ~Stone

    Mamiya: 7 II, RZ67 Pro II / Canon: 1V, AE-1, 5DmkII / Kodak: No 1 Pocket Autographic, No 1A Pocket Autographic | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk