I'm confused. (HC-110 stupid questions)

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by DSLR, Jan 6, 2013.

  1. DSLR

    DSLR Member

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    OK, so I just tried to develop some film and gave up because of the confusion. I have a Paterson 2 reel universal tank...how much am I suppose to fill it up? Is 500ml enough?

    On Kodak's site it says "PREPARING WORKING SOLUTIONS FROM CONCENTRATE*", what's the difference between "solution" and "concentrate"?

    I'll be using distilled water for a stop bath. Do I just pour it in and agitate for about 45 seconds, pour it out, and do it one more time?

    I don't have a damn clue how to mix Kodafix solution.

    EDIT:I'm using dilution B

    Thx
     
  2. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

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    Concentrate in the HC110 example is the thick, viscous, yellowish syrup that you get directly from the manuafacturer.
    Now, there is working solution which is the diluted concentrate that is ready for the tank. Look on the bottom of your tank and see if it has capacities.

    Your stop bath procedure sounds fine except that it would be preferable to have an acetic acid solution but if you only have water then maybe do your 45 second thing twice with 2 dumps of water. That will help your fix last a bit longer.

    Kodafix has 2 dilutions. One for paper and one for films.
    If my mind doesn't fail me I think the film dilution is 1:3


    Dont give up or despair :smile:
    It gets really easy after you have your process down and you will be quite pleased when you take control of your entire image.
     
  3. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    Kodak's instructions assume that you'll make up a stock solution from the concentrate---I forget what the dilution is---and keep that around, diluting it further to make the working solution when you develop. I can't for the life of me work out why they think that; it seems like practically everyone makes the working solution straight from the concentrated syrup.

    I'm not sure about the Paterson tank specifically, but 2-roll tanks are usually either 16 oz or 500 ml. You can always measure the capacity by filling it with water and pouring it into your measuring container.

    The information at http://www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110/ is more useful than Kodak's instructions, IMHO.

    I've always used a water stop with HC-110 (and everything else) and never had a problem. In theory it might not stop development as fast as an acid stop, but I think for most of us the difference is way down in the noise compared to all sorts of other variables.

    -NT
     
  4. Renato Tonelli

    Renato Tonelli Subscriber

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    Make the working solution first by following the directions on the bottle.

    Dilution B is 1+7 (1 part HC110 working solution and 7 parts water).
    A Paterson tank uses 10oz./300ml of fluid per 35mm film. That is 1.25oz/37.5ml of HC110 stock solution per 35mm reel/roll of film. 120 film needs 14oz per roll, if I recall correct.
     
  5. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    I think there's "Stock solution" vs "Working solution". The working solution dilution "B" is 1 part Stock and 7 parts water. From concentrate is 1 part syrup and 31 parts of water. Correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  6. agfarapid

    agfarapid Subscriber

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    If you are using dilution B, for a 500ml solution (which is roughly equivalent to 16oz), I would measure 1/2 oz of the thick yellow concentrate directly from the bottle into a graduate and add 16 oz of water at 68 degrees. If you plan on using HC110, invest in a small graduate (Patterson makes a nice one) to assist in measuring. That's my basic set-up when I'm making a 1/2 litre working solution of developer.
     
  7. Nige

    Nige Subscriber

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    diluting HC-110 is a 2 step process by the manufacturers recommendations (1st dilute to stock solution, then dilute to working solution when required) generally however there is a Dilution 'G' (or something like that... someone will be able to correct me) that is a direct one step dilution (1:63 I think??). Since HC-110 is so thick, measuring the amount required for a 500ml tank (or 250ml if you're only doing one roll) can be difficult (or you get it as close as you can and don't worry that you've actually got 1:50 or maybe 1:75). For my Paterson System 4, 2 reel tanks, I use about 550ml or working solution so that any bubbles are above the film!

    Also, for your stop bath 'rinse', just use tap water unless you've got a reason not to.
     
  8. Pioneer

    Pioneer Member

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    I use HC110 quite a bit and I mix mine right from the syrup and do not typically make the stock solution ahead of time. For dilution B that is 1 part of the syrup to 31 parts water. HC110 is very viscous so must be mixed well, which can be a bit of a pain, but I have really had no problems using it this way. However, Kodak does have a technical sheet available that explains all of this in good detail, for dilution B as well as the other dilution ratios that can be used.
     
  9. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

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    The issue with dilution "B" (1:31) is it gets the times down in the iffy areas of 5 minutes for some common films.
    That's where dilution "H" (1:63) came from. You can just double your times.
    It makes mixing a little easier as I just go 10 ml straight syrup to 630 ml H2O.

    Works for me. I used to use a lot of it but went back to D76 1+1 for my everyday stuff.
     
  10. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Read the following site and all your questions will be answered. Lots of very good information on HC-110 including dilutions and developing times. www.covingtoninnovations.com/hc110
     
  11. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    I think it's easiest to use a syringe to draw up the concentrate, rather than try to pour it from vessel to vessel. In most places you can get syringes (without needles, of course) over the counter, at drugstores and similar places.

    -NT
     
  12. kintatsu

    kintatsu Member

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    The one thing I would recommend is one of those medicine syringes. That will allow mixing straight from concentrate. I mix 1 liter, using about 15.7 ml concentrate with 984ish ml water. When I tray develop I can do 8 sheets of 4x5 using 1/2 liter for each 4, or in a tank I can do 4 sheets, as my steel Nikor tank takes 1 liter. The Patterson universal takes up to 1/2 liter.

    The links above are awesome for information. Another good one is http://mysite.verizon.net/fowler/photo/hc110.htm This site has a good chart to go along with the information.

    I've used it with FP4+ and HP5+ with nice results. Even using one roll of film, just fill your tank full and you'll get good results. Don't let the frustration stop you, this can be a very rewarding experience. At least, for me it has!
     
  13. mgb74

    mgb74 Subscriber

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    While I occasionally use a syringe to measure concentrate, I prefer to take the "stock solution" route, mixing 8oz of stock at a time. I just find it easier to measure out the stock solution in a graduated cylinder in preparing dilution B and especially dilution H.
     
  14. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    FWIW, Kodak's instructions for HC110 now include both approaches - either using an intermediate stock solution or mixing straight from concentrate.

    If you want to prepare the intermediate stock solution, you make it up by adding three parts water to one part concentrate - typically those who work that way just dump the 16 ounce bottle of concentrate into a half gallon (64 US oz) container and fill it with water. When you dilute that half gallon to working ("B") strength it makes 4 US gallons of working solution - perfect for a high capacity lab.

    For those of us who process a smaller quantity of film, the intermediate stock solution is a way to make the measurements easier, but the stock solution has a limited shelf life. So most of us mix it straight from concentrate. That sticky concentrate isn't easy to measure in small amounts (typically 6 ml or so for me) but solutions like small syringes help.

    I find using a 45 ml graduated cylinder works for me. I put in 20 ml or so of water, then I carefully pour the concentrate in until the total volume is 6 ml more.

    I've switched over to using HC110 replenished, but prior to my switch I was using as recommended by Jason Brunner - his 1 + 49 method (essentially the same as dilution "E") works well with the Patterson tanks. Here is the link: http://www.jasonbrunner.com/hc110.html

    EDIT: for clarity, all the posts in this thread are assuming you are using the more common packaging that originates n North America. There is a more dilute version of HC110 that can be found sometimes in Europe.
    EDIT2: Here is the link to Kodak' HC110 technical publication J24: http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j24/j24.pdf
     
  15. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

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    Good point about the US/Euro versions. (concentrations are different)
    I had thought of it but I forgot to mention it.