Impressed on Tetenal C-41 chems mixed 3.5 months ago

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by perminna, Jul 1, 2010.

  1. perminna

    perminna Member

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    I developed my 11th C-41 roll in the same Tetenal Colortec C-41 (1 liter) chemicals. The chemicals were mixed back in March 2010 -- over 3 months ago. The colors turned out still fresh and bright. Tetenal recommends that the mixed chems are used for max. 6 weeks and then replaced. I've used same liquids for over twice as long.

    How long have you been able to use same mixed Tetenal C-41 chemicals? How many films you've been able to develop with same liquids?

    I could almost swear the colors have become better after every film.

    Slight over-exposure is because of the exposure meter on my Mamiya M645. Kodak Portra 160VC in 120 format.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    I've always used up all my C41 chemistry way before the recommended time, but Tetenal chemistry is excellent. I use their RA-4 in my Nova tank when doing colour prints and that lasts well to.

    Ian
     
  3. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    I have used the C41 Tetenal kit as well when I started doing C41. I haven't done any C41 for a while but I am pretty certain that I got longer out of the chems than the Tetenal instructions indicated. Manufacturers have to be very conservative about the life of their chems to avoid, I suspect, claims from users if the chems were to die 1 day before the specified time limit :D:

    It may also be that manufacturers have to try and take the worse case scenario into account in terms of customers who are a "bit cavalier" about chemical husbandry.

    We live in a litigious, compensation claiming culture and here's an example where it bites back when maybe manufacturers cannot risk giving us "good news" in case there is the odd occasion when someone wants to shout "liar" in a court setting.


    pentaxuser
     
  4. Rudeofus

    Rudeofus Subscriber

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    While I never dared to overstretch the expiration time by that much, I do use Tetenal E6 working solution for one or two rolls more than specified and also sometimes for three weeks instead of the recommended two - with no visible differences in the end result compared to fresh solution. I do understand the tight limits stated in the manual, though. Just imagine someone ruins really important shots (think: wedding shots, newborn shots, ...) with developer that is used within stated limits but still doesn't work: APUG would be full of "Tetenal ruined my perfect $IMPORTANT shots" threads ...
     
  5. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    I don't know what happened with your chems, but having experienced the results of C-41 developer death (and it AIN'T PRETTY), I will never try to use the chemicals over six weeks after mixing ever again.
     
  6. perminna

    perminna Member

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    I'll be scanning another film I developed with the same chemicals (film #12) this weekend. I will post a sample shot of it too. It'll be interesting to see the film scanned because I accidentally shot a ISO100 film at ISO160-200 so I had to push it (30s more dev time).

    I recently bough a Paterson tank* which enables me to develop a 120 film with 500ml of chemicals so in the future I'll be mixing only 500ml at a time. Which will of course mean I'll be using the chemicals for shorter time period.

    *) I also had an AP tank which requires 590ml for 120 film which has forced me to mix 1000ml of chemicals at a time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 2, 2010
  7. EdSawyer

    EdSawyer Member

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    Tetenal, etc.

    I had been using the Tetenal C-41 kit, which seemed to work fine. eventually the developer died, though it was mostly all used up by then. I recently switched to all Kodak chems for C41, with separate bleach and fix. At first glance the negs seem better - just slightly clearer and better, it seems. Hard to say for sure without denisitometry but it just seems like they are better than the Tetenal Blix C41 chems. As a bonus the kodak chems are cheaper per roll I think. (the hazmat shipping is a killer though! Almost doubles the price on some parts of the chemistry.)

    I use a Phototherm SuperSidekick 4 which uses 2 oz. (60ml) of solution per run, plus 3 ½ oz. (105 ml) per roll. It can do 4 rolls at a whack so 4 rolls of either 35 or 120 uses only 480ml of chems. I use them all one-shot except I save the bleach to regenerate it for reuse later.

    I mixed partial amounts of the developer, and tried to tightly seal the concentrates using inert gas, we'll see how they keep. Hopefully well.

    -Ed
     
  8. Rudeofus

    Rudeofus Subscriber

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    Wouldn't it be easier to get the 5l kit and mix quantities of 625ml each time? As long as you seal the concentrate it should last for a while, plus the 5l kit is substantially cheaper per roll than the 1l kit. I do this with the E6 kit at the moment and it seems to work well.
     
  9. perminna

    perminna Member

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    This would be another solution. I'm going to buy 5l kits next, I'm just learning and trying out color dev. The 1l kit I'm using right now, is my first C-41 kit ever! I still have another 1l kit of C-41 and also one E-6 to be used. Then I'll be buying either 5l kit of Tetenal, Fuji or Kodak.

    ---

    Another news: I developed a Fuji Reala 100 (in medium format) with the same Tetenal liquids. The roll had to be pushed to ISO160-200 because I accidentally started shooting the roll with wrong ISO set on my Mamiya's meter. The roll was #12 with the same liquids. The dev time was 4:15 (3:45 + additional 30s for pushing) just like instructed in Tetenal manual.

    The results are pretty good: the frames I shot at ISO 160 are a bit over exposed, the frames I shot at ISO 200 are better. I'm still daring myself to dev at least one another film with the same liquids although it's obvious that the colors are starting to look a bit washed out. That said, I never have had a proper saturated results with Fuji Reala 100 and Tetenal combo even when the chemicals were fresh.

    Metered at ISO160:
    [​IMG]
     
  10. Psurys

    Psurys Member

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    iso 160

    If I develop iso 100 at 30 celsius degrees - 8 mins, blix 6 mins -- what would be the developing/blixing time for 160 iso?

    thx, p.


     
  11. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    Are you pushing 100 ISO film to 160 ISO?

    Tetenal says a 1 stop push is 1.25x the time while a 2 stop push is 1.5x the time so a 2/3 push would be??? 1.13x? So 9:00 I guess for the dev, the blix actually you should go longer than 6:00, it is 6:30 at 39C so I'd do the maximum 8:00 blix for 30C.

    I just mixed my kit last weekend and I've done 5 120, 2 135-24 and 1 126-24 roll so far. I have 2 more 120 rolls to do tonight, maybe some more 135 if I can find some decent birds at lunch. So far so good, I think mine will be used up before any sort of time limit as the kit says 8 120 rolls or 12 135-24 or 16 126-24 so I think one more 120 roll will make it 100% of capacity though of course I will keep trying it after that to see what happens. The sheet says 25-50% more capacity is possible so I will see, I still have 3 120 and 3 135-24 rolls to shoot.
     
  12. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    By the way, other than ruining a roll is there any way to do a clip test with C41 film to check for color balance? I can check for d-max of course but it will be without color.
     
  13. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    Processed two more 120 rolls today, Kodak Portra 160NC 2005 expired this time. Both came out great! I'm now past capacity so I'm adding a little bit of time and making sure I have full temperature. The Blix bottle was a bit sunken so it must be oxidizing a bit -- the bottle was full but I lose a little with every roll I do so there is some air in the bottle. I should squeeze it out I know...
     
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  15. SMBooth

    SMBooth Member

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    Harry, so you have just mixed the complete 1L kit and then poured out what you need for the developing tank, processed then back into same bottle? Any change in development time as you go along?

    Shane
     
  16. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

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    I had my 5 litre kit for just over a year. But I only mixed up from the concentrate as I needed it.

    I've got some Kodak chemicals 'expired' in 2005 that are still fresh (again, stored in the concentrate).
     
  17. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

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    Kodak says 30sec per stop, when at the 3min 15sec for n.
     
  18. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    The 1L powder kit cannot be mixed in parts. You can just use 500mL or 250mL at a time instead of pouring it back but it doesn't really extend the life of it. I had a bunch to do so yes, I just poured back what I used each time.

    I've started adding 30s or so to the time so 4:00 dev and 7:00 blix. The blix is oxidizing so I'm not sure how much longer it will last but I'm already past the advertised capacity. I would still like to get another 3-6 rolls out of it if I can. I have another 3 rolls of Portra 160NC 120 and 3 of Superia 800 135-24.
     
  19. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    For some reason the Kodak and Tetenal/Unicolor instructions are different for pushing, much longer for Tetenal/Unicolor. I don't know why.
     
  20. 2F/2F

    2F/2F Member

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    Push times will also vary with the film used. Kodak say 30 sec. per stop for their Portra films specifically. Tests should be done to find push times for other films. The one stop push time will be the time that makes a tone exposed in such a way that it will end up two print values brighter than middle gray with normal processing into a tone three print values brighter.
     
  21. Tony-S

    Tony-S Member

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    Has anyone used this kit with 4x5 film, such as one of the Portras? I assume you can tray develop so long as you manage your temps.
     
  22. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    I'm not shooting 4x5 yet but I assume it would work if you could use an RA-4 tray setup for temperature. You'll lose a lot of heat in an open tray but it only needs to be controlled critically for 3:15-3:30 or so.

    Developed another 120 roll of Portra 160NC this morning, warmed the chems up right from cold storage. Still turning out great! No sign I'll be throwing out my 1L kit soon. Put it back into cold storage afterward.
     
  23. tbeaman

    tbeaman Subscriber

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    I'm not sure how doing it in a tray would be (shouldn't be too hard to retard the slight temperature drop 3:15 would incur), but I've been doing a lot of 4x5 with the powder press kit "taco" style in a Paterson tank. The only problems I've had were my own fault from not agitating vigorously enough in the beginning. You may think it crazy, but it was actually the first film developing I'd ever done (have yet to develop any B&W).

    So far, I've processed 32 sheets of 4x5 and 7 rolls of 120 since I first mixed it in November. That's almost twice the stated capacity; not sure how much further I want to push it.
     
  24. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    Notice any degradation in the images? Since November, wow!
     
  25. Ottrdaemmerung

    Ottrdaemmerung Member

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    Just last week I threw out some finally exhausted Unicolor C-41 chemicals I mixed up in late November. It was my first C-41 kit. stored the chemicals at room temperature between developments, and I added a brief wash step between dev and blix, thinking it would help keep the blix uncontaminated. I also did a bunch of chromogenic and expired-film experiments near the end of its run, when color fidelity wasn't as crucial, so I can't attest to color fidelity near the end. I figure I got about 14 good rolls out of it! When the kit went bad, it went bad suddenly, no slow degradation.

    I'd like to try Rollei chemicals, but Freestyle is currently out of stock of those, and I don't know where to find Tetenal. So it's back to Unicolor for me. I think I'll try cold storing it next time between devs.
     
  26. hpulley

    hpulley Member

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    Jobo/Tetenal/Unicolor are the same I think.