Inconsistent paper base tone.

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by MMfoto, Jan 23, 2005.

  1. MMfoto

    MMfoto Member

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    I am having the problem of some of my prints having a much warmer base tone that others made during the same printing session. I do not have a print washer, so I manually wash all my prints together at the end of the session. This means that some of the prints have been soaking for as long as a few hours, while others go straight into the wash. I have most noticed this with Bergger VCCB, and Forte Poly warmtone, both warm tone papers. My first thought is that these papers have artificial whiteners, and that the prints that soak for the longest have more of these whiteners washed out, exposing the natural tone of the paper. However, I made just three prints the other day and I noticed a distinct difference in paper base tone, the whole session lasting maybe an hour. I have thought that the paper may not be entirely consistent, but more likely I'm doing something wrong. One last thought is that this could be caused by fogging of some sort. ??
     
  2. rjr

    rjr Member

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    I have made that experience with Fomatone MG, another bromide warmtone fb paper, and never found out how to control it. The base gives a tone from soft wide to allmost chamois and the effect takes place in the developing process - the variations are already showing up when I pull the print out of the fixer.

    My best guess: it has to do with the developer - temp, state of exhaustion, "agitation", time.
     
  3. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

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    Papers

    MM-here's what I did to get around color variations. Mix up at least a third more developer and make less prints. I only use Fotrepolywarmtone so this may or may not hold true for other papers. As Fred Picker once said about a thousand times: TRY IT!
    Good luck Peter
     
  4. glbeas

    glbeas Member

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    Any chance this is a safelight fogging problem?
     
  5. MMfoto

    MMfoto Member

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    I do need to do a safelight fog test- one of those million things I've off.

    As for "salting" the developer, wouldn't this also create a warmer image tone? I use Zonal Pro HQ 1:10, BTW.
     
  6. fhovie

    fhovie Subscriber

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    I have had this with some homebrew paper developers and usually it was fixed by adding a little benzotriazole to the developer
     
  7. MMfoto

    MMfoto Member

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    If the solution were salting the developer or adding a restrainer, would that then point to chemical fogging as the problem?
     
  8. rjr

    rjr Member

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    Gary,

    not with my experience - the safelights are safe and tested, red and yellow LEDs and the paper is very slow, two or three stops slower than MG4RC.

    But it might have been some older stock, it sold dirt-cheap at the Foma company outlet in Prague.
     
  9. Lee Shively

    Lee Shively Member

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    This may have absolutely nothing to do with your circumstances but I'll throw it out anyway. The data sheet for Ilford Multigrade papers notes that warmest image color on their fiber base paper is achieved by extended washing.
     
  10. MMfoto

    MMfoto Member

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    I think that does apply, and is an example of whiteners being washed out with extended washing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  11. ChuckP

    ChuckP Subscriber

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    Have you tried a different developer or only the Zonal Pro HQ? You might want to do a test of a large tray of Dectol vs. the Zonal Pro. Do your normal printing but make a print developed in each type. Then compare after washing. Also have you proved that the base gets warmer as the print soak time increases? Or does it get warmer as the developer is used? These are the opposite and you should be able to tell which is happening. I have seen more staining on these papers (which I believe are closely related) then other warmtones. Make sure you use fresh stop and fixer when testing.
     
  12. MMfoto

    MMfoto Member

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    That all sounds like good advice Chuck. I have some testing to do I suppose(my least favorite thing). I don't think paper base is warming with the age of the developer, in fact just the opposite, but I will make a definitive test soon and see for sure.