Discussion in 'Film Dev - Non Staining' started by Jordan, Nov 16, 2006.
Jordan submitted a new resource:
Instant MYTOL - Instant MYTOL
Read more about this resource...
An interesting formula, Jordan. I'll mix some and try it out.
Seems to me that it should be possible to take the ascorbic acid and phenidone and dissolve them in the triethanolamine, then mix this solution together with some propylene glycol (say, enough P G to make a total solution volume of 100ml) this would make a long shelf life, low viscosity stock concentrate.
The appropriate amounts of water and sodium sulfite could then be added to an appropriate amount of the stock concentrate make the working developer.
Hi Tom -- I did consider the idea of mixing the AA and phenidone up in an organic solvent, a la Gainer, and actually tried it with propylene glycol. Unfortunately the solubility of ascorbic acid in propylene glycol doesn't seem to be high enough to make it worthwhile. PC-Glycol calls for 10 g AA in 100 ml of glycol -- this is close to what MYTOL requires in a litre of stock solution, and is near the solubility limit of AA in glycol. At most you could get a stock that would be diluted 1+9.
Triethanolamine may work better for this purpose. The trick would be balancing the pH effect of the TEA with the amount needed to dissolve the AA at a worthwhile concentration. Cutting it with a bit of propylene glycol might do the job, but then you start getting into extra ingredients. Right now I'm content to handle just the phenidone as a stock solution in propylene glycol (20 mg/mL) -- it saves the hassle of accurately weighing sub-gram quantities of phenidone all the time.
I confirmed tonight that this formula works. I used the triethanolamine version and developed 35mm Fomapan 200 (Arista.EDU Ultra 200, exposed at EI 160 in my Yashica GSN) for 6 mins at 20C (the recommended time for stock XTOL). Continuous agitation for the first minute, four inversions per minute thereafter.
The results are quite nice. There is a lot of shadow detail, but 6' may be a tad too long. The real proof of the pudding, of course, will be in the printing/scanning.
Great Jordan, about 3 years ago in an Ascorbic Acid/Phenidone paper developer experiment, I found that I could dissolve a substantial amount of AA and Phenidone in Triethanolamine - then I reduced the viscosity of the mixture by adding Propylene Glycol to the mixture.
This is analgous to what Pat Gainer did in the summer of 2006 when he collaborated with Sandy King on the Pyrocat-MC formulation. In that example, Pat dissolved Metol and Ascorbic Acid and a very small amount of water in a small amount of Triethanolamine. To this mixture, he added Propylene Glycol and Pyrocatechol. It worked very well.
Tom -- I don't have too much TEA on hand to play around with, but if you do, go for it. The obvious solution (no pun intended) would be having the AA, phenidone and TEA in something like 50 ml propylene glycol, making it a stock for 1+19 dilution. I know that without the TEA, you can't dissolve ascorbic acid in propylene glycol at that high a concentration. If TEA helps the ascorbic acid (which I imagine it must), it could make for an interesting application.
Jordan, I have a gallon of TEA on hand - think I'll try it sometime next week.
Thanks for posting this Jordan. It was what I was looking for with my Mytol Mixup thread (http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27976&highlight=mytol). I haven't gone back to try Mytol again but I will now.
Right James, I remember that thread now. I guess I did go and do what I said I would Give this "Instant MYTOL" a try and let me know how it works for you. Once mixed, I don't think it'll have a fabulous shelf life, but it should at least be easy to mix one-shot.
It's possible to mix the triethanolamine, ascorbic acid, and phenidone together as an organic stock solution in propylene glycol. See my edit above.
I've been picking away at odds and ends, searching for a decent full-emulsion speed developer that I can settle on. I thought I'd give the Instant MYTOL a try and had nice initial results. I took some shots on HP5+ (@400) in 35mm and developed for 8 minutes. It's likely a bit long but I got pretty much full speed and the negatives printed relatively easily and on lower contrast paper than I've been using lately. I'll spend a little time tweaking and post curves, etc when I get to it.
Has anyone else been experimenting with this? Are you getting XTOL-type results? Is the PG version performing the same as the water-based version? I had been leaning toward FX-37 for this duty but I think the Instant Mytol grain is more pleasing so far (1 roll!). I assume that this thread is a good place to accumulate information?
Hi Craig -- either this thread, or e-mail me directly and I'll integrate your feedback into the article on my site.
I'm not sure what the recommended time for HP5 Plus in XTOL is, but you should be able to get good results with Instant MYTOL using the same time and temperature.
I haven't had much chance to shoot lately, but the film I have recently developed in Instant MYTOL has worked very well. The PG version should be identical in performance to the water version.
I mixed up a liter of Instant Mytol a couple of days ago. I havn't used XTOL before, but tried out some Tri-X in it and it seemed to work great, just looking at the negs. I plan to do some real testing when I have a bit more time.
What kind of shelf life can I expect from the 750 ml that I didn't use up? If someone doesn't tell me to dump it right now, I will try to use it up in a couple of weeks.
Matti -- The shelf life should be the same as regular MYTOL. I would try to use it up within a month or two. Make sure the working solution blackens an exposed clip of film leader before you commit anything to it.
I'm now using the organic solution version (made up in triethanolamine / propylene glycol) with great success. My solution is about six months old and there has been no detectable change in activity.
Thanks Jordan. That was about what I expected. I'll try to get my hands on some pure propylene glycol. Seems to be great stuff!
Is it possible to replace phenidone with metol and sodium metaborate with borax?
You can try substituting the phenidone with about 10 times its weight in metol and then add in as much borax as is needed to the target pH, but I suspect you'll never be able to reach that target pH with just borax. It is not a strong enough base.
Gainer has some metol-ascorbate-borax formulae out there (sulfite-free) that you may want to try mixing up.
And using NaOH instead of the borax?
I'm using this instant Mytol since more than 1 year, now made a 2nd batch. I mix it double strength, with prediluted phenidone in glycerine, glycerol would be preferred if at hand, e.g. 1g/40ml. As alkali I use Kodalk = borax + carbonate
Here my version of the easy to make 1 liter double stength instant Mytol, re-calculate for smaller amounts yourself. E.g. I only make 250 ml.
800 ml water demin
120 g sodium sulfite
23 g Vit-C crystals
2.8 g borax
9.6 g washing soda (= sodium carbonate) waterfree
0.3 g phenidone (prediluted, see above)
add water to make 1 liter
Keeps for 1 year at least in small glass bottles, probably longer.
Remember double strenght: use 1+1 (for stock), 1+3 (for 1+1), 1+5 (for 1+2), 1+7 (for 1+3)
Many thanks to Jordan for posting this fantastic recipe.
^ I'm very pleased to see that, even eight years on, people are still finding this formulation useful.
Bookmarked in case i try to shoot again soon.
Separate names with a comma.