Investigating Pt/Pd papers

Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by Dana Sullivan, Apr 14, 2008.

  1. Dana Sullivan

    Dana Sullivan Advertiser Advertiser

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    I'm looking for new Pt/Pd papers, both for personal use and for addition to our catalog. I've obtained samples of several types, and would like to hear suggestions for other papers. Specifically, I'm looking for thinner papers that work well and have a good wet strength, as well as japanese papers.

    The papers I'm working with so far:
    Ruscombe Buxton 160GSM
    Fabriano Artistico
    Stonehenge Natural White
    Arches Platine (Should have added this years ago)
    Strathmore 500 plate finish

    Any comments or suggestions regarding these papers?

    -Dana
     
  2. Kerik

    Kerik Member

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    Dana,

    You probably know this, but the Fabriano needs to be acid treated prior to use. 5% oxalic for 10-15 minutes seems to do the job for recent batches. It seems to be even more buffered than it used to be.

    Last time I tried Strathmore 500 it sucked. Acid didn't seem to help. This was probably over a year ago.

    Rives BFK is a winner. Excellent for gumovers, as is Fabriano Artistico. Personally, I like the thinner version of BFK (175 gsm, I think), but the 280 gsm works well, too.

    Are the Van Gelder papers gone for good? I miss Simili Japon/Socorro.

    Hope that helps...
     
  3. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    However, Strathmore 500 Single-ply Plate is an excellent paper for albumen printing and can be difficult to find, so it would be great if B&S were to stock it. Single-ply is easier to coat by the float method than heavier papers, and 500 Single-ply Plate seems to be the closest to what was used traditionally in the age of albumen printing.
     
  4. photomc

    photomc Member

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    Agree with this, would love to find some Socorro - had just a few sheets to play with, nice paper.

    Hope this brings out some new papers Dana, Thank You for pulling it together.
     
  5. Colin Graham

    Colin Graham Member

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    I really like both the 140lb and the 90lb weights of Arches Aquarelle. Needs an acid bath, but great paper. The 90lb has phenomenal wet strength, a very slightly warm base and light linen texture. It feels almost as thin as the Weston parchment but is infinitely stronger. Great for kallitypes, so I assume it would work for pt/pd.. I used to use Platine but the stuff is like a shingle.
     
  6. payral

    payral Member

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    I tried some Awagami Kozoshi 91g/m2 and it's vey nice. Much stronger than supposed for a 91 g/m2 paper. Easily brush coated. Need 2 drops more than usual on Arches Platine (I use 14 FO + 14 Pd for a 8x10") and about 1 step more exposure (x1.4). Clear easily.
    My normal printing paper is Arches Platine. It's a wonderful paper if you use it at very high hygrometric level, good temperature over 20°C et let the coating rest for 5mn before cold drying back side.
    Bad point, sometimes some black points, check paper against strong light before coating.
     
  7. payral

    payral Member

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    Here is the Kozoshi paper reference I use from Schleiper:
    AW21350016 Awagami Kozoshi - papier japonais - feuille 91g/m² - 97x64cm - 4 bords droits - naturel
    AW21350016 Awagami Kozoshi - japanese paper - leaf 91g/m² - 97x64cm - 4 straight edge - natural
     
  8. sanking

    sanking Member

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    Same here, but a friend has been getting some great results with palladium on Strathmore 500, with oxalic acid pre-soak. One of the virtues of this paper is that is has a very hard surface, and detail is better than I have seen with any paper with the iron processes, including COT 320.

    Sandy
     
  9. Kerik

    Kerik Member

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    Sandy - That's good news! Do you know where and when he/she got it??
     
  10. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I've bought Strathmore 500 Single-Ply Plate from Jerry's Artarama. They had the best price if you bought at least 25 sheets when I last checked. I gather from another albumenist who inquired that they don't have much 1-ply left and aren't likely to reorder, but if you're not doing albumen, 2-ply or heavier is probably better anyway, and it's pretty easy to find. I've seen it at Pearl Paint here in New York and at other places that sell watercolor and drawing papers.
     
  11. Dana Sullivan

    Dana Sullivan Advertiser Advertiser

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    Having excellent results with the Stonehenge bright white. No pre-treating, with one drop of 20% Na2 in an 8x10 produces the best result so far. Digital negs are taking 600-650 units on the 26-1k. It's a great paper, coats very evenly and smoothly, is fairly heavy, so it doesn't wrinkle and has great wet strength. Definitely going to be added to our catalog.
     
  12. sanking

    sanking Member

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    Not sure what paper you mean? Is this RISING Stonhenge white?


    Sandy King
     
  13. Dana Sullivan

    Dana Sullivan Advertiser Advertiser

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  15. photomc

    photomc Member

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    This would be the 'NEW' Stonehenge I would think. Since the Rising Mill closed (and all those good folks were put out of work) Legion did purchase the rights. Not sure if this is the same formualtion as the old Rising Stonehenge or not, but it was a nice paper. Be nice to see the name continue on another paper.
     
  16. RobertP

    RobertP Subscriber

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    Has anyone tried the warm white?
     
  17. dpurdy

    dpurdy Member

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    I notice that it is available in 7 different locations just in Portland Oregon. Does that amount of availability have an impact on it's potential as a B&S product? Also we have seen that Cranes was or is using many different paper mills and the paper varied quite a lot from good to unusable. If this paper is being sold in 600 stores in the US can they be making it all in one mill to one standard?
    Dennis
     
  18. deisenlord

    deisenlord Member

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  19. Dana Sullivan

    Dana Sullivan Advertiser Advertiser

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    From what I've been told, the problem with thle Crane's 90lb cover was due the to the shearing machine that cut the paper, nothing to do with multiple factories. In fact, the Weston Diploma Parchment is made on the same line and uses the same base cotton pulp as the Cover Stock, yet it suffers none of the same problems.

    Over the years we've added new products to our catalog, sometimes when we discover something new and exciting (ziatype, the Na2 process), or we fill a void by offering something that our customers have been asking about (Pictorico OHP, Hake brushes, papers).The Weston Diploma Parchment perfect was the perfect example of this second scenario, in the way that it was discovered by a long-time Platinum printer, then spread virally through the internet. Finally, I had customers asking me when I was going to start carrying it!

    I see no problem in selling a common paper, just as I do with the Crane's Kid Finish, which is availalable at many Hallmark shops and most stationery stores. I offer a value-added service, though, in the fact that I will guarantee the fitness of the papers I sell for a particular use. Your local art supply isn't going to have a clue about Alt-Processes.

    I want B&S to become a one-stop shop for alt-process, and part of that means carrying a wide selection of papers. We're also going to start adding more dark room equipment like trays, tongs, plastic jugs and large graduates.

    Also, in the past year and a half, we've seen orders from foreign countries rise from about 10 percent of our sales to around 30 percent. Many papers that we consider common, are quite rare or completely unavailable in many spots around the world. In fact, you'd be surprised at how much Bergger BPF-200 and COT-320 I ship back to customers in France.

     
  20. scootermm

    scootermm Subscriber

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    Dana.
    I think you all are doing a wonderful job at this.
    Always have had wonderful conversations and customer service from you all.

    matt
     
  21. dpurdy

    dpurdy Member

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  22. michael9793

    michael9793 Member

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    I have been using arches platine but I have found on the batch I got a acid bath had to be used. But it would be easier to get it if your business got it. I'm going to have to try Strathmore 500.

    mike a
     
  23. FredW

    FredW Member

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    I have had good success with Arches Hot-Pressed Watercolor, may be called Aquarelle in some markets, comes in various weights. I have tried the 90 and 140 lb weights, and like the 140 a bit better. It has a natural creamy surface, great wet strength. I use it where Platine may be too white.

    For cyanotypes, I like BFK Rives White, the paper is about 90 lb, giving a good color, and clears easily.
     
  24. Colin Graham

    Colin Graham Member

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    Hi Fred,
    I'm glad to see someone having luck with the Arches watercolor paper for pt/pd... What sort of acid treatment, if any, are you using? I've been using a 5% citric acid bath with both 90 and 140lb for kallitypes.
     
  25. FredW

    FredW Member

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    Colin, I have not had to do any treatment with the paper for Pt/Pd. I coat and let it air dry for an hour, or alternately blow dry, and let it sit for 10 minutes to re-absorb some humidity from the surrounding air. I am using the B&S Cold Bath developer, and I am getting a very pleasing warm tone with pure palladium.
     
  26. Dug

    Dug Member

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    For me, Rising Stonehenge has been the most consistent and easy to clear paper for Kallitype and Pt/Pd. I bought a couple hundred sheets of the Rising Stonehenge before the mill closed, so I will be out of the market for a little while. However, the day will come when I must replenish. I will be interested to see if the new "Stonehenge" works as well for me. In fact, I should probably test now...

    I have had success with Bergger Cot32, but at over 4X the price of Rising Stonehenge I will be going through the present stock of Bergger without replacing it. Arches Platine worked (not as well as Rising Stonehenge) but is expensive as well. Lenox was highly regarded by Dick Arentz in his Pt/Pd Printing book, but did not work for me at all.

    Time to get on the Strathmore 500 bandwagon?