Irregular white stripe on the side of negative

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Artur Sikora, Sep 30, 2013.

  1. Artur Sikora

    Artur Sikora Member

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    Hi,

    After developing a negative Ilford HP5+ I got a white stripe on one side of the negative. The strip is irregular in shape and it's about 0.5-0.8cm width.
    Today I double checked tank, reels to be sure that all is clean. Also mixed fresh chemistry and processed another 120 roll of HP5+.... got the same stripe. It has happen to me 4 or 5 time during last 5 years...I have no idea what can cause the problem.
    Any help would be appreciated.

    Thanks you

    PS. image attached (fragment of negative, half of the frame)
     

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  2. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Are you sure you have enough fixer in the tank, and that the reel isn't riding up out of the chemistry?

    Try re-fixing in the light, to make sure that it is fully covered.
     
  3. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    It looks like you have insufficient developer in your tank to cover the film, therefore the edge isn't developing properly. You're probably doing the same with fixer, which means the edge of the film is milky and improperly fixed too.
     
  4. Artur Sikora

    Artur Sikora Member

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    I was thinking about it but I am always checking the level of chemistry. I am processing in Paterson tank where I can fit 1 roll of 120 film. I am processing on 0.5L chemistry. Also I am pouring a bit more fixer to ensure proper bath...
    will try to re-fix in anyway...Cheers!
     
  5. Artur Sikora

    Artur Sikora Member

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    OK...just tried to refix this negative. Nothing has changed but I tried also to check level of chemistry in the tank without the lid. With 0.5L reel is fully covered with chemistry. Level of chemistry is actually about 1cm over the reel but...I spotted that there is a possibility of small movements of the reel during processing up and down. In worst case scenario one side of the reel can be even 5mm over the level of chemistry. That would prove your idea guys Matt and Polyglot.
    The question is how it is possible. I am processing for over 6 years now. Very often 4-5 times a week...and as I mentioned it happened to me maybe 5 times during last 5 years (2 times in last few days)...ehhh
    Thanks a lot!
     
  6. momus

    momus Member

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    Film loading issue? Those odd, irregularly shaped dark areas w/ a gap of white between them mean something, but I'm not sure what. If it were a problem w/ the level of chemicals it probably wouldn't look that way, it would be smooth all the way from one end to the other. At least that's what it looks like when I've put too little chemicals in my tank in the past.
     
  7. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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    Used to happen to me quite a bit until I switched to metal tanks.

    The Paterson tanks used to come with a small plastic clip to prevent the reel from lifting up on the black spindle.

    Without this clip, the reel can work its way up to where you would need more developer to cover the film.

    I'd recommend measuring the amount of liquid needed to completely fill the tank and just assume the reel is going to ride up.

    Or switch to metal.
     
  8. Mark Feldstein

    Mark Feldstein Member

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    I could be completely wrong but I went down a different road after reading the replies. Since you're apparently being quite careful with the processing, and there IS image beneath the stripe(s) that appears to be close to the density of the rest of the image, I'm wondering whether it's running the length of the roll in the same place, consistently or inconsistently.

    If it is, I'm also wondering if you have a light leak in a body back or magazine light trap. Are you loading the film into the camera in subdued or bright light? I'm thinking it looks a lot like light leak fogging.

    In my experience, unfixed strips refixed usually obliterate the image beneath them leaving a clear uneven line of no image. Same with uneven or incorrect levels of developer. Just for the hell of it, I'd check for leaks in your camera and film mag if you're using one. That might turn up some problem causing this too.
    Mark
     
  9. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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    You should use 600 ml of developer, or find the plastic clip (or jerry-rig a clip or retainer) and make sure the reel is all the way at the bottom.

    If I were still using the tank, for black and white processing, I had been thinking I would use the proper amount of stock to make up 500 ml of developer - and then add even more water to bring it to 600 ml, then I'd adjust my times to compensate for the slightly reduced activity of a bit more dilute developer. I would rather develop in a solution that was a little too weak and risk slightly thin negatives, than have only part of my negative be properly developed.
     
  10. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    It's not a light leak because that would show up brighter on the image. There is also a definite splashy aspect to the fault which screams "liquid issues". Not sure what the bright bits are; they could be the edge rails on the spiral, dribbling a little extra developer onto the film at that point; if I'm right then those white bars will have a close pitch at one end of the roll and a coarser pitch at the other end.

    Also, overfilling the tank is really bad idea. You need a big quantity of air in the lid for agitation purposes. There must be enough air to completely rearrange all of the developer in the tank when you invert it; if you overfill the tank then you only have a little bubble and inversion doesn't cause any real agitation.

    I never had mine ride up, but then I only used a Paterson for about 100 rolls before I moved onto a Jobo, and my spirals were pretty tight on the centre core. I'm guessing they include the locator-clip for a reason.
     
  11. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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    I was surprised by how often the reel would "ride up" in processing on me, considering how firmly the reels slide down on the spindle. But they would ride up - even with the clip on.
     
  12. georgegrosu

    georgegrosu Member

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    The cause of negative borderless come out lighter than the rest of the film are:
    - insufienta amount of developer. Version that was mentioned by fellow above;
    - the spiral tank with impurities;
    - a film molding defects.
    To check the last two assumptions Cut two pieces of film (~ 3 cm). A glimpse of a charge and the other a charge overturned. If the film are molding defective of the film one piece more transparent film will come out on top and one on the other in the bottom.
    If the problem comes from the tank, lighter portions will come out on the same side.

    George
     
  13. rince

    rince Subscriber

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    To me this also looks like insufficient liquid levels. Check your tank for suggested fill levels at the bottom. Most Paterson tanks are 500ml for a single spiral of 120 film. If your tank is bigger, make sure you put an empty spiral on top of the one with the film, so it can not ride up the little black center tube. Happened to me a few times, before I started putting empty spirals in to keep the loaded spiral down.
     
  14. Artur Sikora

    Artur Sikora Member

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    Many thanks to all of you!
    Will check all what you suggested.
    As mentioned before I am processing a lot and this thing happened just a few times. I am using the same tank, the same reels and chemistry. And yes...I have this clip to keep the reel in one position but using it not too often.
    Appreciate all your suggestion!
    time for tests
    cheers!
     
  15. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Maybe the tank and reels got worn that all of a sudden the reels were 'allowed' to start moving around?

    Try using a rubber band and wrap it tight around the center column so that the reel can't move out of the 'bottom position'.

    That's the easiest way I found to prevent this with Paterson and other plastic tanks.
     
  16. Artur Sikora

    Artur Sikora Member

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    Thanks! I will process couple of rolls tonight. It will be 35mm this time and mentioned problem happened only while processing 120...will see anyway
     
  17. Arctic amateur

    Arctic amateur Member

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    I bought a new Paterson tank last year, and the reel(s) would frequently move up the column a millimeter or three during processing. More so with a single reel than with a double. No locking clip included.
     
  18. ROL

    ROL Member

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    How long is your hair? :whistling:
     
  19. Artur Sikora

    Artur Sikora Member

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    Ok, finally I made another tests. the same tank, reels, chemistry and type of film. This time however I was using mentioned clip for keeping the reel in one position. Also instead of 500ml I prepared about 530ml chemistry(just in case)...all looks fine. negative is drying now so will check it once again tomorrow.
    Cheers
     
  20. cmacd123

    cmacd123 Subscriber

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  21. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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    Artur Sikora,

    Sounds like you will be fine from now on. To insure against white stripes, always use a little more developer ... like you just did.

    You'll never have to worry about it again.