Is D23 Good To Great for Any Film?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by dancqu, Oct 27, 2005.

  1. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    I only read good reports for D23. I think though it must be
    better for some emulsions than some others. How for
    instance does it do with the T and D films? Dan
     
  2. Tom Stanworth

    Tom Stanworth Member

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    Never used it but have see postings from those who rave about it for TMAX100 for control of highlights and tonality. Delta films have very crisp structures fine grain and so from my limited experience do nicely in fine grain devs. Delta 100 is great in Aculux and suspect it would be great in d23.
     
  3. fhovie

    fhovie Subscriber

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    I use the split d-23. It is a wonderful developer. It compensates for challenging exposure situations without yielding flat negatives. It gives smooth grain but still crisp. It does not have quite the accutance of a pyro mix and it does give full emulsion speed. It works fine with TMY. I haven't used it with Delta film. I see no reason for it not to work fine.
     
  4. juan

    juan Subscriber

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    I've used divided D-23 with TMX (TMax 100) and like it a lot. It, unlike Pyrocat HD, gets rid of the red (magenta) dye during development and makes development by inspection possible. I also like it for contrast control with that film (as well as controlling contrast with night shots on Efke PL100).
    juan
     
  5. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    The Kodak recipe for D-23 plus a recipe for a Split version of D-23 are posted in the APUG Chemical Recipes.

    http://www.apug.org/forums/article.php?a=25

    BTW, D-23 contains a lot of sodium sulfite, which probably explains why it is good at removing the red antihalation dye from Tmax.
     
  6. BradS

    BradS Member

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    Maybe this isn't the proper place to ask, but can one use Kodak Hypo Clearing agent for the Sodium Sulfite in preparing D23?
     
  7. df cardwell

    df cardwell Subscriber

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    D-23 is a virtual equivalent of D-76, with characteristics which made it superior for labs using replenishhment in the early '40s.

    Since EVERY film is made to work well with D-76, every film will work well with D-23.

    . How cool is that ?
     
  8. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Sodium sulfite is not the only ingredient in Kodak HCA, it also contains some sodium bisulfite (so you'd probably end up with something closer to Kodak D-25).

    Better and less expensive to buy some sodium sulfite from The Chemistry Store, Artcraft or PF.
     
  9. Keith Tapscott.

    Keith Tapscott. Member

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    Unfortunately, most of the information on D-23 seems to be about the two-bath version which is not much use if you loath the tonality of two-bath developed negatives.
    Ilford give developing times for HP5 Plus in ID11 diluted 1+1 for 13 minutes at 20C/68F and for Perceptol also diluted 1+1 for 15 minutes at 20C/68F.
    You could experiment by making D-23 and developing HP5 Plus for 14 minutes using a 1+1 dilution as a starting point to see if you like the performance of the developer and adjust the developing time from there as necessary for your enlarger and standard/normal paper grade.
     
  10. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Keith, 14 minutes seems like a good HP5 Plus starting time for a 1+1 dilution of D-23.

    I have used D-23 undiluted, diluted 1+1 and diluted 1+3.

    For D-23 undiluted, 8 minutes should be a good starting point for HP5 Plus. Temperature, 68F/20C.
     
  11. nworth

    nworth Subscriber

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    I use D-23 instead of D-76 when I want more compensation effect and acutance. I don't think it's a developer for all occassions. Negatives from it have a quite distinct look. It is, however, a very useful, good developer that works with just about any film. One point, though. Be careful mixing it. It is very sensitive to stray alkalai, and tap water with a slightly high pH could turn your negatives to soot.
     
  12. Keith Tapscott.

    Keith Tapscott. Member

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    Using filtered water that has been boiled and allowed to cool to the required mixing temperature should help. A sequesterer such as Sodium Hexametaphosphate (Calgon) can help to get rid of any nasties in the water too, try about one gram per litre to start with.
     
  13. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Calgon is a copyrighted trademark that apparently began life as a contraction of "Calcium Gone."

    The current version of Calgon does not contain Sodium Hexametaphosphate.

    The product currently called "New Calgon Water Softener" in the USA is phosphate free. The same product is called "Original Calgon" in the UK.

    The main ingredients of both of these Calgon products are:

    Sodium carbonate
    Trisodium citrate dihydrate
    Sodium sulfate

    See:
    http://householdproducts.nlm.nih.go...nds&id=18001030

    For a chelating agent/sequestrant, you are probably better off with either Tetra sodium EDTA or Sodium Hexametaphospate.
     
  14. BarrieB

    BarrieB Member

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    Can someone put up the "Formulae " for D 23 and D 23 divided, please .
     
  15. BradS

    BradS Member

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    see Tom Hoskinson's first reply to this thread on the first page.
     
  16. Keith Tapscott.

    Keith Tapscott. Member

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    The word CALGON is often used as a generic phrase, if we use a vacuum cleaner, we often say we are doing the hoovering even if the product is made by Dyson etc. Sodium Hexametaphosphate is commonly used as a sequestering agent. I remember reading somewhere on Ilford`s website that Ilford products are free of EDTA compounds. Sodium Tripolyphosphate seems to be the one that Ilford prefer.
    Thanks Tom. :smile:
     
  17. Keith Tapscott.

    Keith Tapscott. Member

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    An easy one to make as it is the simplest of published developer formulae.
    750 ml of water at about 50C.
    Metol developing agent: 7.5 grams
    Sodium Sulphite (anhydrous) 100.0 grams.
    more water, to make one litre.
    D-23 or similar, is probably the foundation formula of developers such as Kodak Microdol-X and Ilford Perceptol which include other components and are formulated to give extra-fine grain albeit with a subsequent loss of emulsion speed yield, usually around half to one stop.
     
  18. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    At least Cool. I've thought for some time that D-76 is no
    more than a low cost D23. Low cost hydroquinone with it's
    regenerative abilities takes the place of some metol.
    Do you think there is any thing to that?

    Many MQ and M only developers from the 20s and 30s use
    100 grams of sulfite with varying amounts of M and Q. That
    likely has to do with the way those developers were used
    and the films put through 70 and 80 years ago.

    IMO, metol only with sulfite developers have received short
    shift. D23 is very rich in Metol so makes a good A bath
    B bath. I suggest sulfite for the B bath. It has a ph
    between that of borax and metaborate.

    I've tested a low sulfite one-shot using 1 gram of metol
    in a 1% solution of sulfite; encouraging results with Tech
    Pan and Pan F+. A half liter, 1:3, of an 8 - 80 gram formula
    I used two nights ago did well on a roll of Delta 3200.

    Of course a two chemical developer, one or two bath,
    appeals to anybody's minimalist instincts. The only thing
    that bothers me about the Metol only sulfite combination
    is the film speed coming out of it. How close is that speed
    compared to MQ and PQ or, for that matter, MC-PC
    combinations?

    Today's films are not what they were 70 and 80 years
    ago. I don't want to be too much of a minimalist. Dan
     
  19. nworth

    nworth Subscriber

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    Please note that divided D-23 is not so much a version of D-23 as derivation. It is a divided developer that can be used with the zone system for variable contrast development. It does this by partial development in D-23 and then immersion in a stronger alkalai for the remainder of the development. The contrast can be varied by changing the time in the alkalai. This high pH environment is much different than the D-23 philosophy, and the images are different.