Is it this how they should be , i.e. first time using Lith

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by zinzin, Aug 19, 2005.

  1. zinzin

    zinzin Member

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    I have decided to try some lith printing and after wasting some paper I have produced the prints in the links below. As a first timer I'm not really sure if they look correct, if that is how they should be, if I didn't snatch in time etc..... any feedback/input would be welcome.

    http://www.zenadsl6337.zen.co.uk/Temp/Lith0001_apug.jpg
    http://www.zenadsl6337.zen.co.uk/Temp/Lith0002_apug.jpg
    http://www.zenadsl6337.zen.co.uk/Temp/Lith0003_apug.jpg

    The paper is Forte Plygrade FB and the developer I used is the Moersch Easylith kit.
    Many thanks
    Salvo
     
  2. Dave Miller

    Dave Miller Member

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    The question you should be ask is: am I happy with them?
     
  3. Dave Miller

    Dave Miller Member

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    Lith printing is a specialist branch of this pastime, and one with which I’ve had little experience, or, more accurately little experience of success. Having looked at your pictures I find them a little too contrasty for my taste, the shadows looking too blocked. Since I’ve forgotten more than I ever knew on this subject I can only refer you to Tim Rudman’s book for guidance on the subject contrast control. I do remember that the developer had to “mellow” and did not produce best results until several prints had been developed in it. I also found that a greater developer dilution than generally recommended slowed the rather soporific process further and allowed a longer window for the critical "snatch" time.
     
  4. zinzin

    zinzin Member

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    Thanks Dave, good question.
    it is not that i don't like them (maybe my wording wasn't great)....it is just my personal opinion, I find them quite interesting and different... and with a strange unusual look... but not sure if they are how they are supposed to be, e.g. darker, lighter, less contrasty.... etc.
    or maybe this is not important with lith? The main thing is that I'm happy with them? I have some normal prints that I like, but some people may find them too flat or too contrasty, not burned in enough etc.
    cheers
     
  5. Snapper

    Snapper Member

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    It all depends on what kind of effect you are trying for. These look like my early attempts at lith - huge contrast and not much colour.

    You will probably need to try using a higher dilution of lith developer and over exposing more. The contrast is reduced and you start getting the colours appearing (depending on the paper used - I haven't used Forte Polygrade, I use Polywarmtone instead). All this results in dev times of 10+ minutes sometimes, so you have to be patient with lith.
     
  6. Snapper

    Snapper Member

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  7. Dave Miller

    Dave Miller Member

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  8. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    In my few attempts I have had both spectacular and abysmal results. I suggest you try longer exposure and shorter development, or more dilute developer, or older developer, or something else... That will give more colour to the (then softer) highlights before the snatch-point is reached. That is - if that's what you want.
     
  9. gnashings

    gnashings Inactive

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    I can't offer any advice due to a lack of experience in this area - so I hope you won't mind me chiming in. I felt compelled to do so because I was very taken with the examples of your work - I found them breath taking! However, I can see how the look you got may have a very limited useful range of application - it will definitely only work with a limited number of subjects and desired effects, but here it seems to really hit home. I would love to see further experiments!
     
  10. raucousimages

    raucousimages Member

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    Looks like good lith prints to me. I shoot 8x10 lith for abstract portraits. If I want high-contrast I use an A/B lith developer if I want more tonal range I use Dektol. Keep at it, Lith is fun.
     
  11. raucousimages

    raucousimages Member

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    P.S. Try a sun print. Take some old fiber based paper and contact print a lith neg in the sun. This can take a long time. Then fix and wash. NO DEVELOPER. Like I said Lith is fun to play with.
     
  12. FrankB

    FrankB Member

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    I second the advice to check out the Rudman book. A really excellent tome.
     
  13. C Rose

    C Rose Member

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    Can't agree more with the sugestions on Rudman's book.. However if I may.. Your prints will have more highlight detail if you expose them longer- possibly much longer to bring the highlight "snatch point" nearer to the snatch point of your shadows and blacks. As Rudman says he chooses a point on the image that he wants black and watches that area for the snatch time- the rest of the print must have enough exposre for you to be happy with the detail etc..... Lith is most definetely FUN.... I was lucky enough to take a workshop wtih Rudman himself just a week ago - Lovely man and a wealth of information. He is "the man" when it comes to anything Lith! The amount of testing he has done is mind boggling.

    Have a blast

    I know he has a web site..

    hmmmm now I need a signature

    for now .. Beckie out
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 19, 2005
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  15. zinzin

    zinzin Member

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    Guys, thanks so much for taking the time and providing me with all these suggestions and advises, really appreciate it - isn't APUG great? :smile: . Definitely I need to get THAT book now.
    I will keep on experimenting and wasting paper, hopefully soon I can post something nice :smile:
    Have a great weekend
    Salvo
     
  16. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Member

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    Hi,
    Here is an example on Kentmere kentona. Try with a high dilution (1+10 each at least). Overexpose the print, it will take a long time in the dev, up to 15-20 minutes, but with great tonal scale.
    At that dilution, it will exhaust quickly. keep it to make some "old brown" and add a little bit of it at each session.
    Try graded papers, they respond better than multigrade.

    Best regards,

    Guillaume
     

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  17. C Rose

    C Rose Member

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    Very nice print!!! Thanks for the example I will have to try that paper and dilution...What kind of Lith chem are you using? I have not yet tried graded papers- trying to get comfortable with the stuff I know first.... Cowardly - Thanks for the push :smile:
    All good info - important to save that "old brown"


    Beckie out
     
  18. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Member

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    Thank you,
    I use mostly Clayton and Nacco. I use what is available in California...
    Go for graded paper !
    All the best
    Guillaume
     
  19. C Rose

    C Rose Member

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    Have you tried FotoSpeed (FreeStyle) that is the only one I have used - like it. Rudman seems to like it, that's what we used at his workshop anyway. I'll check my notes for the dilutions....
    I'll try and scan an example. Hasn't been pressed so not sure how it will come out.

    Beckie out
     
  20. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Member

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    I bought one set but never used it. If you like it, stay on with Photospeed and play with the dilutions. How was the workshop ? Did you try different dilutions then ?
    Guillaume
     
  21. boc

    boc Member

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    Hiya! I attended that workshop with Beckie. We had a chance to try out the Kentona paper but unfortunately it was a bad batch. We kept getting vertical lines going down the paper. Looked like a messed up digital print or something. I'm eager to try it out again though as I did like the look aside from that. I also tried an RC paper by Foma that gave me some really nice results. Unfortunately I forget the name of it. I need to figure it out as I want to know if they have a fiber equivalent that will give me the same look. Lith is too much fun, I highly encourage everyone to try it out at least once.

    boc
     
  22. C Rose

    C Rose Member

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    The workshop was great as was Tim Rudman (hosted by FreeStyle) We used one dilution just can't remember just now. I've done 2 workshops and used the FotoSpeed both times. I plan on playing with the dilutions once I get my darkroom set up.... soon I hope. Gota get his book!!! He is THE MAN
    Between the two workshops did get to try quite a few papers. See BOC's post above. But really need to play with the the dilutions to get some different results... Also the graded paper suggested..... can't wait!

    Next work shop will have to be one of his advanced ones, or just the book... He mentioned sooo many other posibilities just not enough time in one day. He did say it was all in the book.

    Beckie out
     
  23. C Rose

    C Rose Member

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  24. Dr.Kollig

    Dr.Kollig Member

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    Dear Salvo,

    I think Forte Polygrade is more of a cooltone paper. Cooltone papers tent not give the typical yellow colour. You might try a warmer paper. I use cooltone combined with gold toner for a cold look, colour turns toward blue.

    The money spend on Tim Rudmans book is very well spend.

    If contrast is too high usually exposure was too short, expose for colour - develop for blacks, as Tim said in his book. I usually take the normal printing time and mulitply by eight (= 3 stops). When the developer gets older I sometimes just expose 200 or 300 secs at 2.8 for a 12*16'' print, which would take 30-45 secs at 5.6 as a regular print.

    Some developers or papers work better at higher temps like 30°C, e.g. Agfa at that temp gives a rather look, you will not get at 20°C.

    If developing times are too short use a higher dilution AND add some old brown, which is how used lith developer is called.
    Personally I use Champion Novalith (Made in UK) 50 ml A and 50 ml B to 1 litre, or 2 fl. oz. A plus 2 fl. oz. B to 2 pints. I mix this 3 hours before printing and just let it age in the tray.

    Health risk statement: Lith printing can be addictive!

    Kindest regards,

    Wolfram
     
  25. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Hi There

    As others have suggested you need to expose longer, and as well I would preflash the paper to help lower the contrast.Your pull times are ok , just not enough exposure on the paper.
     
  26. neotokio

    neotokio Member

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    Is difficult to use Moersch Easylith Kit?
    I want to buy it for starting lith printing
    Thank you very much