Is Rollei CR-200 slide film aka Aviphot Chrome 200 sliide film "Yellow"?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Alpenhause, Feb 13, 2013.

  1. Alpenhause

    Alpenhause Member

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    Is Rollei CR-200 slide film aka Aviphot Chrome 200 sliide film "Yellow"
    Has anyone used the Rollei branded 200 ASA slide film in 120 or 35mm and the resulting slides have a strong yellow cast? I am referring to the film having been processed in E-6 for slides

    This film is repackaged Afga Belgium Aviphot Chrome 200 and is also marketed as Lomographic X-Pro 200.

    Please bear in mind there were no errors in the E-6 process at my lab, the Ektachrome and Fujichrome rolls processed at the same time and batch look perfect.

    Are the fine folks at Macodirect.de, Freestylephoto.biz just blatantly selling film with a weird strong yellow cast when processed in E-6?

    None of them are answering my questions about the yellow cast in this film, I wonder why?

    Oh! They say it is Agfa RSX 200 slide film on a different base! Yeah right......
     
  2. AgX

    AgX Member

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    There are people who report to have experienced this cast from the start of that small gauge conversion, but there is also report of the film being without cast at the beginning of that conversion.
     
  3. Alpenhause

    Alpenhause Member

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    Is it possible I got some screwed up film?
     
  4. BMbikerider

    BMbikerider Member

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    I use CR200 film and with proper bleach fixing there is no colour cast. The wash times I find are a little short so I increase them by 1 minute
     
  5. Alpenhause

    Alpenhause Member

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    I wonder if my lab is not processing correctly, The other films processed at the same time in the same batch look fine
     
  6. wblynch

    wblynch Member

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    As an alternative, I have heard of people E6 processing CN-200 for more pleasing results. The CN-200 is on a clear base with no orange mask.

    I am anxious to try both films.
     
  7. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    Some people experience this, some don't. My experience has been in between; I found that it definitely skews yellow compared to other slide films, but in a way that looks warm rather than unnatural. Downrating it to 160 or so seems to help for some people, and it may also depend on lighting. I think one person reported a "cure" based on slightly extending the first dev bath. The issue has been discussed here several times with no clear conclusion.

    I thought it was known definitely to be the RSX II emulsion, and that the same emulsion was also used for the aerial film, but on reflection I'm not sure how strongly we really know that.

    -NT
     
  8. tnabbott

    tnabbott Member

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    Why do people post questions about film without uploading an example?
     
  9. Aurelien

    Aurelien Advertiser

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    This film normally has no cast. It has a little colour shift in the yellow, because it was designed to be used as an aerial film. SO in the sky you have a natural blue filter :wink:
    But a yellow cast no. This film is more sensitive to the chemistry age. It can explains why you have such a cast.
    In my own lab, I have a very normal slide film, with very good results. Even the yelllow colour shift is very faint.
     
  10. AgX

    AgX Member

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    This is not reflected in the data given by Agfa.
     
  11. LJSLATER

    LJSLATER Member

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    Yes.
     
  12. Alpenhause

    Alpenhause Member

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    I think I will try this Cr-200 again but have a different lab process it in their E-6, my local lab of 30 years In Ventura, California retired their E-6 machine last year and is "farming out" E-6 to a lab in Santa Barbara, I think I will try the pro lab in Simi Valley or L.A. might also give Dwayne's In Kansas a try, they were the last Kodachrome lab in the world but still seem to take pride in their E-6 processing.

    Some Agfa films are highly intolerent to careless processing, the extinct Agfa Ultra 100 is very intolerant but Agfa Vista from Germany is not, Kodak Ektar is intolerant too.

    I think I will buy a two roll pack, cut it into 4 rolls and then send them to 4 different labs and see how it works out.

    The two rolls I tried earlier turned out with sick yellow green skies and had lots and lots of yellow, not even what you would want to keep, downright disgusting looking.

    I will scan some slides so that everyone can see what I am on about.
     
  13. Alpenhause

    Alpenhause Member

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    Here are scans of the "Yellow" CR-200 shot in Joshua Tree National Park, I don't know how to use this stupid ass scanner of mine but you get the idea, they are unsharp scans
     

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  15. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser

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    hi alpenhause

    are the slides "thin" or on the dense side -
    from what i have read, this film has a different look depending on
    if it is over or under exposed.
     
  16. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    It might just be the scan, but those slides look underexposed to me. I think the color balance of this film is more neutral, and certainly the grain appears much less pronounced, with a little bit of overexposure. Are the slides, seen in person, on the underexposed side?

    -NT
     
  17. Alpenhause

    Alpenhause Member

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    I would say the slides look properly exposed, I do have some over and under and they still look quite yellow.

    There are some shots taken at after sunset and they look good, it is the ones in broad daylight that stink.

    I am using a cheap scanner and it has been a tough uphill battle to get the scans to look representative of the originals.

    Out of all the research time spent on this film it looks like a Pain in the ass, the intolerance to flakey processing and the weird color rendition certainly does not engender much faith in this film, stocking up on Ektachrome 100VS and Velvia is a better idea.
    I will try "Cross Processing" the CN-200 in E-6 and see how that works out.
     
  18. wblynch

    wblynch Member

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    I am excited that a small manufacturer offers this film and the price is reasonable for hobbyists. My next film purchase will be some CR200 and some CN200.

    I'm hoping to get a 'Ferrania' look.
     
  19. ME Super

    ME Super Member

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    A Wratten 82A or 82B filter will tame the yellow cast. I'm not sure which one, I haven't bought one to try out yet, but was playing around with some slides I shot on the CR200 in GIMP with a color temperature changing filter I found and it seemed like 82B would be more likely to fix the yellow. 82A absorbs 1/3 stop and 82B absorbs 2/3 stop.
     
  20. LJSLATER

    LJSLATER Member

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    Some of my all-time favorite shots were made with CR-200, and I always make sure I have some on hand. But it is certainly not for everyone. I would even go as far as to call the film bizarre. And if you ask me, it's stranger still that it's somehow managed to survive this long despite its strong yellow cast, highly visible grain, and unconventional polyester base. On top of that, the descriptions of the film by the vendors that sell it are erroneous at best.

    We've discussed CR200 film at length here on APUG. AgX is the expert in Germany and BMbikerider has tweaked his own processing to rid the film of its yellow color.

    Regarding professional E6 labs in California, I was devoted to A&I for years (terrible customer service, perfectly processed film), but when they stopped E6, I switched to Data-Chrome at Daniel Stone's recommendation. Their results are even better than A&I's, plus they are faster, more reasonably priced, and downright friendly to their customers!
     
  21. wblynch

    wblynch Member

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    Data-Chrome is great!
     
  22. Alpenhause

    Alpenhause Member

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    Data-Chrome! That sounds like a great idea, they are just two counties away from me, about 150 miles so mail will arrive overnight.

    I should try Data-Chrome and the use of an 82A and 82B filters.

    It is certainly interesting how those dealers that sell CR-200 blatantly misrepresent this film and its results up to the point of denying anything is wrong when you ask them about the off color results, they will just ignore the inquiry at first, and then once I resubmit the email they just claim everyone else is getting good results with the film with no complaints.

    They do of course, offer a refund which is good but you are still out the time and effort along with the processing costs which are more than the film costs.

    I will bet this film is a pain in the ass for these reputable dealers, they know it gives weird results, must be embarrasing to sell a questionable film like this and then claim "its fine" and then even display a few sample images that look great.

    The CN-200? people seem to really like it, just a few complaints about grain, has nice color rendition that is quite desireable, this film was first marketed as Rollei scan film CN-400 then Rollei/Maco has found that rating it at 200 ASA it does a much better job, this is the Aviphot 400X.

    I have some of the discontinued Aviphot N400 which has the orange mask, it is marketed By Macodirect.de as Maco TCS 400 Eagle traffic surveilance film, the images from this film are really nice with little grain, powerful color with a vintage look, this might be a good film to copy over onto Kodak Vision motion picture print film to make slides. I have copied the original Leverkusen Agfa Vista 200 on to the Kodak Vision print film with spectacular results.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 16, 2013
  23. j.c.denton

    j.c.denton Member

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    My attemps at shooting CR200 ended in similar yellow results. I have read about the possibility to adjust for it by changing the developement parameters. But I am not developing E6 myself, yet.

    Luckily, for those who own Photoshop, at least the scans can be corrected within a click.

    Christian
     

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  24. Alpenhause

    Alpenhause Member

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    That is exactly how my slides look, this is a perfect example of the "Yellow" of the CR-200.

    I just don't have any use for a film like this, too much work to get the colors right so that the slides can be projected.

    Good thing this film works great for cross processing in C-41, I am thinking this film is not going to be all that popular as a slide film.
     
  25. Diapositivo

    Diapositivo Member

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    Thinking aloud: one might take a picture of a Macbeth chart (or similar) with this film and project this slide as the first slide of each projection (or of each tray). Human eye is very adaptable and if you project in the dark, such a trick should make people adjust their "white point" so that they cannot notice any cast.

    I am not saying this as a fact, but as an interesting hypothesis, or something on which to experiment.
     
  26. madgardener

    madgardener Member

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    Interesting that an E-6 film would have that heavy of a yellow cast, especially when it's being marketed as a film that is color accurate. Would that yellow cast still happen then if I were to expose it at EI 160 or say EI 320?