Is this a drum dryer? Does it add gloss to prints?

Discussion in 'Darkroom Equipment' started by jon koss, Mar 1, 2008.

  1. jon koss

    jon koss Subscriber

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    Hard to believe I have reached this advanced age without figuring this out, but I am not sure what this beast is. Is it a 'drum dryer' of a 'ferrotyper' or both? Will it add gloss to prints? Is its main function to dry or to gloss up prints? I have had one for a few millennia but have never given it a whirl.

    Thanks,
    Jon
     

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  2. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    both, if i am remembering correctly.
     
  3. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    I've also one for years in storage. If the fabric is
    easy to remove for cleaning mine may see use as
    a paper dryer at low temperature; emulsion towards
    the canvas. Or if not so easy to remove use under
    sheets of some clean material. Dan
     
  4. AgX

    AgX Member

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    The idea behind any heated and highly polished plate is to give gloss rather than dry.

    The photographic paper is placed wet with the thus swollen gelatin to the heated plate under pressure, by which the gelatine and paper base is dried and the gelatine glazed.

    The term `ferrotyping´ is a relict from those times when an uncoated ferrotype plate (in place of a modern chromed plate) was used for glazing. Flat or rather a little bent to allow the paper being pressed to the plate by means of a textile.

    The drum machine resembles this principle except for that there is a continuous motion enabling to feed and empty the glazing device more easily as well as givce easy control over glazing time.

    I don’t know whether `ferrotyping´ is only used for the former mechanism.

    However, there is also the term `glazing machine´ which can be divided into the flat bed and the rotary forms.

    In case you put the paper with its base onto the plate/drum there will be no glazing (except for the inherent gloss) but only drying.
     
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  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Do NOT put RC paper through one. Use only FB paper.

    PE
     
  6. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    I have a drum dryer. I was told by the previous owner and have proven to myself the following:

    1) Polish with an inexpensive car wax to prevent prints from sticking.
    2) It dries both FB and RC papers with the emulsion facing the canvas.
    3) Ignoring #2 and placing the emulsion facing the drum will cause the prints glue themselves to the drum no matter how low you have turned the temperature! Removing stuck prints can be permanently damaging to the drum! The best bet then is to soak the stuck print with a very wet spounge and peel from the corner. The paper will shread anyway. Doing this with a drum dryer will either ruin you day for the drum surface. This exercise is for the independently wealthy or the really bored photographer!

    Read the name plate and research the product to determine whether or not it is a print dryer.

    Steve
     
  7. Neal

    Neal Subscriber

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    Dear Jon,

    You so have a drum dryer and it will dry and add glossy finish to your prints. I don't think it is a continuous type dryer, rather, you roll the drum/print/canvas until the print is completely held against the heated drum, wait until it is dry, then unroll it. You will know it is dry because it will pop off the drum on its own (don't try and remove it too soon, you will be sorry). Your unit will dry all fiber based paper but I would avoid using RC paper in it. If you decide to experiment with RC paper (again, I wouldn't), keep the temperature very low (start with a low temp for fb too).

    I dry all surfaces with the print face against the drum. Non-glossy surface paper must not be wet. If you can see liquid on the surface you will get a glossy spot even on matte papers. I let non glossy papers dry on a screen for a bit before putting them in the dryer. For glossy paper, any imperfection on the drum will be transferred to the print.

    Keep the drum clean. Spots on the drum will show up on your prints.

    Go here and search on Pakosol: http://www.pakor.com/ This helps, but it won't substitute for carefully working towards the settings that work for you. Personally, I have not found it necessary but I would suggest using something like this http://www.restorationproduct.com/renwaxinfo.html rather than car wax if getting the prints to release becomes a problem.

    Start with a low temperature and unroll it every 5 min or so until the print comes off on its own. Work the temperature up slowly (waiting is easier than cleaning). It isn't the easiest darkroom technique to learn, but when done right you get the glossiest prints you have ever seen. Further, if you like matte prints, they will dry nice and flat using this device.

    Good luck. I hope the experience isn't too frustrating. ;>)

    Neal Wydra
     
  8. GM Bennett

    GM Bennett Member

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    Not selling it already, are you?!
     
  9. jon koss

    jon koss Subscriber

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    Heavens no - my unit is similar to the photo but if I ever sold it I would offer it on APUG first of course!

    Jon

     
  10. David H. Bebbington

    David H. Bebbington Inactive

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    This looks like a rather downmarket low-spec rotary drying machine. What a glazing machine is meant to do is have prints on glossy FB paper fed in emulsion up on the belt and be hot enough so that the prints are dry and glazed and ready to spring off the drum all by themselves after traveling around 270° round the drum.

    This particular machine lacks a number of features that I recall from the Kodak professional glazers I used 30 or 40 years ago. It does not have a pair of handwheels in the front to adjust the belt tension, it does not have a lever at the side to move the pressure roller against the drum for glazing and way from the drum for drying without glazing (back of prints against drum in this case). It also does not have a control panel at the side with a temperature and speed control. I therefore suspect it is a drying machine - the reason why it has a chromed drum may be that it shares this component with more expensive models that do actually glaze.

    I would personally not use this machine - it would probably be effective with a document-type paper, but if you are using glossy FB, the fluff that would most probably be pressed into the print surface would drive me nuts!

    Regards,

    David
     
  11. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    These machines are very capable of drying RC papers, I worked alongside a commercial advertising photographer for many years and he used a rotary glazer for all his RC prints, often doing many hundreds of prints a day. I had one myself and used it for drying FB papers, but stopped because I didn't feel that the canvas was clean enough for archival prints.

    Ian
     
  12. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    I can't agree or disagree with the idea of drying RC with such a dryer.

    I have to say that at EK when RC was first introduced we had a lot of complaints about the RC sticking to the drum or to the canvas. Therefore, we said in our publications that RC should not be dried face up (emulsion) side to the drum, and if dried face down, the heat should be set to a low value. At this time, I forget that value, but it was much lower than normal.

    At the same time, the dry mount tissue was changed as were the dry mount temperature recommendations. It was for the same reason. The resin could melt when it hit the press or the paper and create quite a mess.

    So, do what works but recognize that RC can melt. That is how the paper is made. Resin is melted and extruded through two hoppers into contact with a moving web of paper to make a sandwich of resin/paper/resin.

    Ecess resin was coated, made into chips and remelted to conserve resin. It was then blended with fresh resin and used for coating. This cycle went on. The point being that the resin can be easily melted.

    PE
     
  13. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    When I first saw a rotary glazer being used for RC prints I was horrified, all the data-sheets, said don't use them under any circumstances.

    But with the heat turned down slightly, and at a faster than usual rotation speed there were no problems. I did see the occasional prints stuck to the chrome when someone inadvertently put a print through with the emulsion facing the drum, or when someone had tampered with the speed or temperature settings, but with care the print could easily be removed without damaging the chrome
    surface. My photographer friend preferred to use his rotary glazer because it was a lot faster than the conventional RC paper driers then available, also he was a bit mean and was happier using what he already owned.

    Ian