J&C and other Cirkut film

Discussion in 'Panoramic Cameras and Accessories' started by jamie young, May 19, 2006.

  1. jamie young

    jamie young Member

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    I'm wondering what most cirkut people are doing for cirkut film
    Has anyone used the J&C film?
    I've been using kodak cirkut Verichrome pan with my #8, which I use the most, Aerial film for my#5 and #10, and forte 400 for my #16. I got 400' when I finally got my camera going. I've been cutting down the 8" cirkut film for my 6 outfit.
    But I want to be more careful using up my 8" cirkut film now that it isn't made anymore, and thought I would try the J&C film. I 'm doing a cirkut demo at a show opening I'm having in june, and don't want to waste factory spooled film on that,so I thought I would consider trying it.

    Also, is anyone interested in getting 6 1/2" rolls? It's worth mentioning- I would be interested in a few. I like the 6 outfit for landscape work.
    Jamie
     
  2. jandc

    jandc Member

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    We also have our Classic 400 (Forte 400) coming in 8 inch by 100 foot rolls around the end of June. It is listed under Cirkut film on the web site. However, this is on sheet film base and not roll film base like the Efke 100 Cirkut film.
     
  3. jamie young

    jamie young Member

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    Thanks for your reply. I think it' s really great that you are making so many odd sizes available! I 'm curious why you decided to go sheet thickness on the 8" film. I've run thicker film through cirkuts, but it does have issues.
    It depends a little on the camera. I've run sheet thickness Bergger (forte) film through my 6 outfit with mostly ok luck. I have some photowarehouse (ilford) 16", which doesn't do well at all in the big camera, and I plan on cutting the rest to use in a 7E al vista swing lense camera I've just started using. Generally it's best to use film on the same thickness base as 120 film. I got forte to cut 120 base film in 16" widths, which works well. The thick base doesn't tend to unwind smoothly past the slit and can cause speed changes and slur problems. It keeps more of a shape memory. One thing that helps is letting the spooled film sit for a while before using it. As a user, I would recommend thin base only for cirkut use.
    Best, Jamie
     
  4. jandc

    jandc Member

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    I agree that roll film base is best for Cirkut use, that's why I indicated that is was sheet film base as a caution. We ended up with this film as a result of a special order for 24 inch x 100 foot rolls of film. The remaining 16 inches from the master roll were cut into 8 inch rolls. Possibly good for Cirkut and also good for those that want to cut their own sizes.

    The Efke film works well from all reports from other Cirkut users being on the roll film base.

    Thanks
     
  5. Ed Workman

    Ed Workman Member

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  6. jimgalli

    jimgalli Subscriber

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    Jamie, My single Circut pic so far was done on 9 1/2" aerial film cut down to 8". But I have bought quite a bit of the 10" Cirkut film which I will be using in my 10 when I get time to get it on line. Would you like me to cut you 12 feet and mail it to you for testing. The film itself is wonderful. I've used quite a lot in my 8X10.
     
  7. jamie young

    jamie young Member

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    Jim-did you get the efke from J&C? Just curious how it works, but thanks for the generous offer. tell me your experiences with it. I'll likely get some soon. I need to work on getting my #10 running better first. I have a historical process show coming up soon, and once I'm set with that I want to get my 10 and 16 going better. I was thinking of getting the 8" but only if it was on a thin base. How's it going with getting the camera running?
    Jamie
     
  8. jimgalli

    jimgalli Subscriber

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    Yes, it's the J&C Efke 100 Cirkut film. Trying to cut it down is a pain. My 10 is an easy project just as soon as I get some time to do it. So much stuff-so little time. Let me know if you want a piece to play with. Jim
     
  9. Cattrall

    Cattrall Member

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    Could either of you talk about recutting long rolls of this film? I would like to try to recut the Jandc rolls to make old roll film sizes but where to start. Do you use a roller to roller or a long cutting board?
    Bill
     
  10. jamie young

    jamie young Member

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    Mostly I've been using a dewalt miter saw and a jig to cut spooled cirkut film shorter, but I would like to make a roller to roller jig and slice it from whatever size I need to.I haven't had any problem cutting and using cirkut film this way, but I just cut up a few rolls for my 7" al vista swing lense camera, and I believe the nature of the stationary camera and film being moved though the channel, as opposed to moving over a narrow slit of the cirkut, dust becomes a issue,even though I was careful about vacuming the film after cutting. I had a lot of fun using the camera, and want to shoot some more with it. Slicing is much cleaner. Another thing to make though.
    You could make a jig for whaever size you want to use.It's challenging to do things in the dark of this nature, and easy to use jigs are the key.
    I am curious what others are doing as well.
    Jamie
     
  11. jimgalli

    jimgalli Subscriber

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    My cuts so far are extremely simple and not applicable to this discussion. I chop the film at 8 inches and load into holders. That said, I tried once to make a jig to cut 70mm film down to 120 and it was a dismal failure on every level. When I had the 8 circut and cut some 9 1/2" down to 8" it was startlingly difficult and I didn't achieve a clean edge. I believe my rough edge caused some of my banding in my one cirkut exposure so far. I doubt if it's possible to cut cirkut film to rollfilm sizes successfully unless you've got industrial equipment made to do it.
     
  12. Ed Workman

    Ed Workman Member

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    I shot about 10 feet on Saturday- 3 130 degree shots of the same thing, my house and yard. J&C works very well. Now to get the rest of the bugs out. The camera was motorized by others and I spent Friday afternoon getting it going- a minor wiring glitch.
    I had one spool/leader/film that had some writings like "good '98" but no hint as to speed. It may have been a reload with 400 or maybe VP.
    I tried it ( what the hey) just to see if it would run with film etc. I looked up developing Aero by reel to reel and VP small tank, corrected for windage and outdated film, tried HC 110 in a tray for 15 min and got boiler plate, but an IMAGE. So I tired another cutoff at half that and got a printable, if dense and lots-of-fog, sharp image.
    I lost a third due to ripped film, I suspect from the "hole punch"
    Then I shot 3 130 degree shots on some J&C that I reloaded onto the spool with great difficulty, taped the leader but no trailer. By this time it was noon light.
    I still don't understand how to compensate for the paper leader- I over compensated by taking a narrow exposure- a little too much as the tail end hanged up and gave me the only band at 2'' from the end of the 3rd exposure.
    I cut the film 1/3 and 2/3 and was not able to detect a mark of any kind that is supposed to be made by the "cut button". "1/3" was easy to "see-saw" in the trays, but the "2/3" had to be rolled from hand to hand.
    The J&C has little or no tendency to curl, so it was difficult to keep the film rolled and the cut ends tended to scratch the image. Also, handling 10 inch by 9 feet or so of film that wants to be flat makes it easy to pick up lint and other detritae. Plus all those fingerfumble marks can't be good. I have detected no fingerprints on the negs but I do remember loading a daylight tank for a fast start at the next session. That session didn't take place tfor a week or so, meantime my fingers had promoted fungal growth on the film- so I'm concerned about a 2-3 week time between loading the camera and processing.
    To do
    Make a loading rack so I can keep my cottonpickin fingers off the film
    Check actual exposure to assure enough- In the harsh light I didn't get enough exposure in the shadows, but enough in the highlights.
    Figure out how close I am to the right development if I use a Morse Aerial outfit and Clayton F-60
    OR fix the "cut button"
    Get another spool!
    Get my own magnifying cosmetic mirror to see under the camera to check the gear mesh since I hate that creaking sound when I try to bend over and upside down.
    I contacted one of the negs on 8x10 sheets of EK Polymax- no sign of banding!!
    I too am very interested in a slitting solution - to make 122 film.
    I have a couple hundred feet of sheetfilm stock cut to width . I tried one shot in a Kodak Panoram. It worked if loaded and unloaded in the dark, but it's too thick to roll properly on a standard 122 spool. The 3/4 inch diam of a Cirkut spool probly will work better- maybe even using minimal film lengths on a say 1'' rod?
    Last query- Has anyone tried spooling long film lengths? I surmise I could probly get 40 feet on a spool plus leader and still have sufficient freeboard for light protection.
    AND there is nothing like seeing a 10x30 neg come out of the fix!! It's almost ULF Fever.
     
  13. jamie young

    jamie young Member

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    You don't want to spool too much film because one of the measurements that makes for a sharp image is diameter of the takeup drum. It's ok for a fair amount of film on the #10, say 10-12 feet, but will change the diameter too much after that. Also it probably wouldn't fit very well.

    Having the film unwind is a problem, and the answer to that is spool up the film and let it sit a few weeks before using it
    On the 8 outfit and 6 outfit kodak designed the camera to take film with the emulsion facing out, as opposed to in on the #5,#6, #10, and #16.
    Kodak sold 8" film up to just a few years ago that had the emulsion facing in,and I used it on my 8 outfit. People said it didn't matter, but I found the camera did run better when I reverse spooled the film. The angle going over the felt is just a bit less, but it helps. You don't have to , but I've found that every little bit you do adds up to a smoother running camera. Anyway. I really notice that letting the film sit a while after reverse spooling.
    spooling and handling fil in the dark is a constant torment. Use cotton gloves whenever you can, jig up when you can, etc
    I'm curious- did kodak stop making 10" color neg film?
    Jamie
     
  14. jamie young

    jamie young Member

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    On the takeup drum. When determining the speed that the film moves past the slit in relationship to the camera turning, the speed that the film moves has to do with the circumference of the drum and the speed that it is turned.
    With too much film added the the circumference grows larger, and slurring will result at some point
     
  15. Ed Workman

    Ed Workman Member

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    Dang-of course. Sigh
    I get only references to VP when I search cirkut on the Kodak site
    Thanks for your help, I'll cudgel my brain for a way to do this!
    regards
    Ed
     
  16. dphill

    dphill Subscriber

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    A current thread from Ilford's Simon Galley asks if any LF/ULF people would be interested in Delta 3200 sheet film. See below

    http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?p=306059#post306059

    Maybe you can convince Ilford directly or via JandC or ??? to save some 10" wide roll ends for Cirkut use after the short sheets are cut.

    I don't shoot Cirkut but I do enjoy looking at LF panoramics and I know the pain involved when a process is lost due to lack of materials.

    Take care,
    Dan
     
  17. jamie young

    jamie young Member

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    thanks for the thought
    Cirkut film needs to be on a thin base, like 120 film, or aerial film. sheet stock is too thick
    Best, Jamie