JandC Pro 100

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Mongo, Jun 4, 2004.

  1. Mongo

    Mongo Member

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    I noticed this morning that JandC is listing "JandC Pro 100" film on their site in roll and sheet film sizes. Does anyone have information on this film? Like most sites, the JandC site is sorely lacking in details (beyond the astoundingly low price).
     
  2. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Send J&C an email and ask them. They're nice folks and very responsive.
     
  3. Thomassauerwein

    Thomassauerwein Member

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    Tom, do you send them (JandC) a bribe? I don't seem to have the same luck. Love the paper they offer, can't seem to get them to sell it to me. I finally gave up a couple months ago.
     
  4. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    Detailed Description
    JandC Pro 100, ISO 100, B&W Sheet Film
    This is a new film unlike anything we have offered before. A high quality emulsion with excellent expansion and contraction capabilities.

    This film responds well to Pyro developers. Especially recommended for use with Pyrocat HD developer. It also behaves very well with common developers like D-76. (25 sheets per box)
     
  5. garryl

    garryl Member

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    >It also behaves very well with common developers like D-76. <

    Well maybe if you sat it down in a quiet corner and gave it a good talking to, it would
    start behaving better with the uncommon developer. }:^)>
     
  6. jandc

    jandc Member

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    We special ordered this film several months ago. It was produced for us in China. It arrived Wednesday and it has been tested with D-76, 10 minutes is looking about right. It was also tested with Pyrocat 2:2:100 and gave very nice initial results.

    We are working on getting more developing information.
     
  7. sanking

    sanking Restricted Access

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    John at JandC sent me a few sheets of the new Chinese film and I tested it in Pyrocat-HD. I think it is a very good film. Here are a few of the notes I sent John.

    1. The film has a pale cyan antihalation backing.

    2. It develops rather quickly, similar to Ilford FP4+ and much faster than EFKE and JandC Classic.

    3. ASA is about 100. From my initial tests it appears to have an EFS slightly higher than Efke PL 100 but slightly lower than Ilford FP4+. And about the same as JandC Classic 200.

    4. Grain and sharpness appear to be what we would expect from an ASA 100 film, similar to FP4+ and Efke PL 100.

    5. There was no emulsion defects in the samples I tested.

    6. The film has very low B+f even with extended development. It also cleared in my fixer very quickly, in less than a minute, where most films take a couple of minutes.

    7. In terms of expansion and contraction potential the Chinese film performs slightly better than JandC 200 and BPF, but not quite as well as Ilford FP4+ and Efke PL 100.

    The film also develops nice image stain and very low B+f stain in Pyrocat-HD, and the B+f stain remains quite low even with extended development.


    Sandy King
     
  8. sanking

    sanking Restricted Access

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    That is very kind of you. I plan to test the Chinese film with the 1:1:100 dilution of Pyrocat-HD, which would be more appropriate for regular silver printing than the 2:2:100 dilution, which was done for AZO and Pt./Pd. application. Unfortunately I will not be able to do so for a while as I am leaving tomorrow for a working trip of some two weeks in San Antonio.

    And I should add that my comments in the previous message about the expansion and contraction potential of this film do not apply to regular silver printing. Since the required DR is so much lower than what you need for AZO and Pt./Pd. the film gives plenty of contrast for expansion as low as SBR 5 or N+2 for silver printing, more than one will likely ever need.

    Sandy
     
  9. Mongo

    Mongo Member

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    Sandy-

    Thanks for all of the information. I appreciate your contributions to this forum; you've provided me with a wealth of information through your posts here.

    I ordered some of the new film in 120, 4x5, and 8x10 this morning before I posted the question. Kind of a blind leap, I know, but it's cheap enough that I figured it was worth trying out. Unfortunately I'm headed to Europe for a few weeks and won't have time to do any testing before early July, but I do plan to take the 120 with me and shoot it there. (An even bigger blind leap?)

    After I'm back I plan on testing the sheet film in Rodinal, HC-110, Perceptol, and D-76. I'll probably stick with the D-76 for the stuff I shoot in Europe, but if I find anything interesting I'll share it here.

    I will, thankfully, have occasional access to this forum during my trip, so I'd be interested in hearing any experiences anyone else has should they try the new film.

    Dave
     
  10. Mongo

    Mongo Member

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    I received my package from J and C today (talk about fast!) and wanted to share my thoughts on the new film.

    My order was for five rolls of 120 and one pack each of the 4x5 and 8x10 film. As always when dealing with J and C, the film arrived well packed. It took me a few moments to find all five rolls of the 120 amongst the packing peanuts, but at least my cat got some fun new toys out of the deal. (Does anyone else cringe when their pets put packing peanuts in their mouths?)

    I was disappointed to see that the sheet film did not come in boxes. It's in the type of envelopes that I sometimes find inkjet paper packed in. The envelopes are of a reasonable thickness cardboard and the flap is glued over. There's a "tear strip" on the flap to open the package. I haven't opened either of the packs yet, as I don't know what's inside and don't have time to fiddle around with finding a light-tight container for the film if it turns out the envelopes and whatever packaging is inside aren't up to my "standards". (I'm pretty casual with many things, but keeping light off of my film until I trip the shutter is one of my obsessions. Since I do all of my work in a changing bag, I want to make sure I dig up a box to put the film in before I open the packages.)

    The 120 film comes sealed in foil packets (a very vibrant red, in this case). I opened one up and loaded it into my trusty Bessa I. The roll was sealed with what appears to be masking tape. The paper backing on the film is flat black with "white" printing. (White is in quotes because there's really not enough ink on the paper to make the printing appear more than medium gray.)

    The film loaded into my camera easily, although it looks like the roll I opened was missing the line/dot/arrow/whatever to indicate the start point. The word "START" was very obvious, but I just guessed as to where the actual start point was. Luckily, my experience with the camera indicates that I guessed well.

    I shot off the roll pretty quickly around my yard and garage. After I was done, I unloaded the film, dumped everything into the changing bag and loaded the roll up onto a stainless steel reel. (One disappointment here: the tape for sealing the roll when it's finished didn't have any glue on it. None. It's just a piece of thin paper with some printing on it. This is not a good thing. Either quality control screwed up, or someone out there has a very bad idea of how 120 film should be stored once it's been shot. I'll definately take some tape with me when I use this film, just in case.) Unrolling the film was easy, and the tape on the end of the roll wasn't too much trouble. The film base felt good to me (somewhere between T-max and FP4+ in thickness would be my guess); it was certainly easier to load up than a roll of Ilford film.

    After I got everything loaded, I went through my standard procedures for 120 film, with a wild guess at the development time. Step by step, here's what I did (all temperatures were 20C, and all volumes were 400 ml):

    Pre-soak - agitate for 15 seconds, rap the tank, stand for 1 minute, agitate for 15 seconds, stand for 30 seconds, drain. Repeat. (The water from the first pre-soak was a pretty wild color...somewhere between turquoise and blue. Very pretty!)

    Developer: I used D-76 1:1, semi-stand, for 17 minutes. Why 17 minutes? Why not? (Actually, the note from JandC that 10 minutes seems "about right" with D-76 gave me a reasonable place to start my guesswork.) I agitated for 15 seconds, let stand for 5 minutes, repeated 2 more cycles, and drained at 17 minutes.

    Stop: Three water rinses, 15 seconds agitation, 15 seconds stand, repeat twice each.

    Fix: Fresh TF-4 at film strength. Agitate for 30 seconds, stand for 30 seconds, repeat four cycles, dump after five minutes.

    Rinse: One bath, 30 seconds agitation and 30 seconds stand.

    Fix again: For whatever reason, I decided to do two more minutes of fixing with more fresh TF-4. Same as above for two cycles.

    Rinse: One bath, 30 seconds agitation and 30 seconds stand.

    Hypo Clear: Nacco Rapid Wash for 60 seconds.

    Rinse: Ten minutes in running water, including fully draining the tank every two minutes.

    Wetting Agent: Photo Flo 200

    These are pretty much my standard procedures for 120 film developing. I don't always fix twice, but with some of the older style films (like J and C Classic) I find that the 2nd fix helps clear the film a bit. (Before anyone mentions it, yes, I know I rinse a lot. It works for me.)

    When I was done, I had a roll of well developed negatives. My initial examination (it is _so_ hard to use a loupe when you don't want to touch the film!) shows great range. It is impossible for me to judge the grain characteristics of the film (or even the latitude) until the negatives have fully dried, but they look pretty darned good to me at this point.

    One odd thing: The negatives definately have a blue-green tint at this point. Darned if I can figure out why. I've seen a pinkish-purple tint on J and C Classic in the past when I either rushed the pre-soak or the fix, but I definately didn't do that this time. I'm not really concerned about the color, but it does surprise me a bit. We'll see how it looks when the negs are dry.

    I will scan a few of the negatives and post them when I can. My guess is that this will have to wait until tomorrow, but if by chance the negatives dry tonight I'll throw some up here. (Please note: The pictures are _crap_. I made no attempt at anything more than getting exposures onto film, so don't hold the lousy nature of the composition against the film.)

    All in all, I have to say that I'm well pleased so far. I wish the sheet film came in boxes (Any chance J and C would provide boxes for an extra buck or two?), and I hope the issue with non-glued tape at the end of the roll of 120 is a fluke, but to my eye it looks like the film performs very well. I saw no indication of emulsion problems or ragged edges. Given the price, if the images are half decent I'm going to be spending a lot of time with this film.
     
  11. gma

    gma Member

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    I am glad to see so many test the new J&C film and report the results. The sheet film price certainly is tempting, but I would like to see some photos posted. Is the sheet film base rigid or thin? How does it work with different developers?
     
  12. Mongo

    Mongo Member

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    I've uploaded a frame from the test 120 roll that I shot, and a 100% crop from the frame. Neither the frame nor the crop were processed in any way other than allowing the scanner to choose levels automatically. (The picture is crap; I wanted to get a look at grain in both detailed and flat areas, and this shot gave me that.)

    The white panel on the garage door is definately blown on the negative. Judging from the other frames on the roll this is almost certainly either an exposure or processing error, not a problem with the film. The dark window (in the upper right of the full frame) has a lot more detail than I got in the scan. The range on this film looks really good to me, and I'm sure with some more formal development testing this film will be very good indeed.

    Also note that the spots on the door are actually spots on the door, not dirt on the film or problems with the emulsion. My garage door is very dirty (who would have guessed with all of those spider webs?!?).

    I've examined the whole roll through a loupe, and can find no emulsion problems with it. (I did find the code "SGPFF" printed a couple of times on the very edge of the film.)

    The grain on the film is very smooth both on-screen after the scan and when examined under a loupe. Detail is very good. I suspect that I'll be very happy with this film in Rodinal (and I'm kicking myself for not trying Rodinal first), although I have no time left to test that theory before I leave for a few weeks.

    I'll be interested to hear of any development times anyone comes up with for this film. I obviously need to run some test rolls, but couldn't resist running out and filling one roll with images before my upcoming trip. I'm glad I did, as I'm pretty sure I've found a new film to fall in love with. If the sheet film is this good, I know I'll be hooked.
     
  13. Mongo

    Mongo Member

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    I screwed up and sent the full frame scan to the Technical Gallery and the crop to the Standard Gallery. They're both there and both under my name...not sure how I managed to do this and don't have time to sort it out...but you can find them both under my name.
     
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  15. martin@jangowski.de

    martin@jangowski.de Member

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    You can have a look at my sensitometric tests at <http://www.jangowski.de/sensitometry/>. In Germany, this film is sold as "Lucky SDH100", I tested this film, its brother SD400 and a few others with a few developers.

    Especially the SD100 is very sensitive to small variations in processing. A friend of mine tried to find useable times with Rodinal 1+50 and Spur HRX, but found that even a 30s difference in processing time will take the film from thin, underdeveloped negs to dense overdevelopment. I'm using a ATL3 with its excellent temperature and agitation characteristics and had no problem getting very consistent negatives.

    We also found large volumes of Iodide in the fixer after fixing a few SDH100 film (my friend is a chemist and can make quantiative analysis). We suspect the SDH100 is an T-crystal film, maybe an offspring of T-Max100. After all Kodak helped to modernize the Lucky film works a few years ago and owns part of it. The finicky processing and the Iodide in the fixer points to T-crystals in the film.

    All in all, the film is fine and inexpensive.

    Martin
     
  16. Mongo

    Mongo Member

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    Martin-

    Things just might get a little more interesting given your notes. When I was looking at the film on the light table, the tonality reminded me in odd ways of Acros and/or T-max, but given that I was just guessing wildly at the development times I dismissed my suspicions that it is a t-grain film. If the development time is this sensitive and there are high iodide levels in the fix, then it seems almost likely that it is t-grain.

    Thanks for posting the link to your data.

    I do have some notes from a few months ago when I found good times for Rodinal 1:100 with Acros and T-max; perhaps I'll use those as a starting point with the new film.

    Dave
     
  17. Jorge Oliveira

    Jorge Oliveira Member

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    To J&C

    Any chance this film will be sold in 35mm, 100ft rolls?

    Jorge O
     
  18. jandc

    jandc Member

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    We are hoping to have new 35mm 100 and 400 films in a couple of months.

    100 foot rolls are also possible but not in the initial release.
     
  19. jandc

    jandc Member

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    To clarify on the post above regarding 35mm 100 and 400 films. We've had numerous emails on this topic.

    We will be carrying the Lucky SHD 100 and 400 films in both 35mm and 120 in a couple of months. Bulk rolls are possible.

    The JandC PRO films are not Lucky SHD 100
     
  20. Mongo

    Mongo Member

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    jandc-

    Can you give us some idea of when you'll have development information for this film on your web site? Also, can you confirm or deny that this is a t-grain film?

    Thanks for your help.
    Dave
     
  21. eric

    eric Member

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    Oh, I see, the Lucky SHD is different fromt he JandC pro. Somoene on photo.net was saying that this Lucky film was similar to Verichrome but the only thing I saw on jandc was the PRO, no Lucky film. What will be the pricing of the Lucky film compared to the Pro film?
     
  22. jandc

    jandc Member

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    It will still be a couple of weeks before we have enough data to post reliable information on the web site. However, some informal testing has given us the following starting times.

    A49 - 9.5
    Xtol - 10.5
    Rodinal 1/25 - 11
    R09 1/40 10.5
    D76 - 10

    JandC Pro is old technology film.

    Pricing on Lucky will be similar to PRO.
     
  23. eric

    eric Member

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    I'm confused. You state "JandC Pro is old technology film" but others are stating that its "T-Grain" film. Maybe I'm just getting old and T-grain is now considered "old" :smile:
     
  24. jandc

    jandc Member

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    Not T-Grain
     
  25. eric

    eric Member

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    sweeeeet. I don't much like the t-grain films. Guess I'll order a few rolls and play around.
     
  26. eric

    eric Member

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    You got any initial times with PMK (1:2:100) ?