Jobo 3005 drum question

Discussion in 'Darkroom Equipment' started by wilsonneal, Nov 28, 2006.

  1. wilsonneal

    wilsonneal Member

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    I finally broke down and got a 3005 drum. Couple of questions for regular users of this as I bought it used without any instructions.

    First, do you 'need' the sponge on the stick to keep it clean? Will anything else work?

    Also, the plastic piece on the bottom is kind of loose. Does this have any function?

    Last, how does this work internally? I filled it with 1 liter of solution and put it on the Unicolor base (modifed not to change direction) and I hear the liquid sloshing around in there. I opened the unit and 4 of the 5 had a small amount of fluid and the 5th had more. Does the solution actually manage to rotate into each chamber an equal amount, randomly, through each rotation? That's pretty cool engineering.

    I am shooting a job on Thursday so will test five sheets tomorrow.

    Neal
     
  2. JosBurke

    JosBurke Member

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    My plastic bottom thingy is kinda loose too so that must be the norm and I use the sponge to "dry" as opposed to "clean" and I guess you could easily rig your own. As far as the internals--my end result is very even every time though I tend to use a tad bit more than "minimum" fluid amounts---I also use a 3010 as well---perfectly even every time !!
    Congratulations you'll love it!! Are you the Kodak Master 8x10 user ?
     
  3. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    Neal -

    amazingly enough, the development does end up being completely even, even though it would seem to be totally random. Actually, you do want your motor base to be bi-directional - that promotes more even flow of chems through the drum as it rotates. If the drum goes only one direction, you can in theory end up with surge marks on your film from the chems flowing in the same direction all the time. I'm not sure what plastic piece on the bottom you're referring to, but I don't have anything "loose" on either my 3005 or my 3010 drum.

    You don't have to have the sponge-on-a-stick, but it makes drying the drum between batches SOOO much easier. I put a couple of folded-up paper towels, the lint-free types, around the sponge, and use it as a plunger to dry the tubes. Works great. Then you don't have to worry about pre-moistening the sponge, or about the sponge getting too damp to absorb water.
     
  4. colrehogan

    colrehogan Member

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    I think I have some instructions that I scanned and made a pdf file of. If you'd like I can check when I get home and email them to you.

    I think that the thing on the bottom is just a cover. One of mine on a 3004 I have is a bit loose too. I think it can be glued back on if it comes off.

    Diane

     
  5. wilsonneal

    wilsonneal Member

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    Thanks for all the replies.

    To answer JosBurke, I am the Kodak Master View shooter. I love everything about it except the funky lensboards. There are times when I want to make a lensboard to try an odd lens, and unlike a Deardorff or other cameras, it's harder with a KMV. It's a terrific camera. Very fast, for me.

    To Diane: I would like to see the instructions if it's convenient. I will PM.

    To Scott: I modded my Unicolor base because I'd read elsewhere on this board that with a 3005 drum the Unicolor WILL NOT make a full revolution before reversing, and that it was better to continue in one direction. Argggh. If you're right, I've ruined a Unicolor base for nothing. I will have to test on smooth grey subjects and look for uneven development.

    Thanks
    Neal
     
  6. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    Neal- you may be right about the unicolor not making a full rotation with the 3005 drum- it's a big drum, but not radically larger in diameter than the 3010. Best way to decide is to put a tape marker on the barrel, run it empty, and watch it spin when in bi-directional mode. See if it goes the whole way round or not. If it is close, say 90%+ full rotation, you'd probably be ok. On the CPA/CPP, it goes at least 1 1/2 full rotations before reversing.
     
  7. Jerzy

    Jerzy Member

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    Expert drums are designed the way that liquid movement extends in both directions acros and along rotation axis. A flow along the rotation axis will not allow any striking caused by rotation in one direction. Bi-directional bases can produce worse results if not synchronized with full drum rotation. I have bi-directional mode but I am using only one direction and everything is perfect.
     
  8. jimgalli

    jimgalli Subscriber

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    I agree with Scott...hey !:smile: :smile: :smile:! on the reversing rotation. It's important for even developing. Maybe you could buy a no / nc timed switch and do a further mod to the uni-roller where you set up the time in each direction. I do 8-2 1/2 minute washes after the fix. #1 as a first clear, #2 with Kodak Hypo Clear, #3-#7 wash wash wash straight H2O and finally on #8 I add a sprinkle of Sodium Hexametaphosphate into about 800ml H2O. A sprinkle covers a penny about 1/3 to 1/2 however much that is. It keeps the drum shiny nice inside and it keeps droplets from forming during the drip dry phase.
     
  9. Loose Gravel

    Loose Gravel Member

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    I've been rotating in one direction for about 12 years. No problems. It is a custom base for PMK that is a bit slower and stronger.

    Nothing rattles on the bottom.

    Cleaning stick is not that big of a deal and you can make one from a piece of sponge. I use wrapped in paper towel just to dry sometimes. Usually rinse in cold water and drip dry.

    I don't know if you have the pump to open, but the best opening trick I've read is to use a rubber stopper with a hose connected to your water supply. Use your water pressure to open the tank. Fabulous.
     
  10. don sigl

    don sigl Member

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    I have one of these drums and I use it with a unicolor base. i also use a neat gadget that was meant for slowing rpm on wood routers. I can slow the unicolRr down to a creaP with it. The Unicolor will not provide a full rotation in bidirectional mode. I don't use this mode. I remove the dum every minute and set it back down in the opposite direction This seems to work fine. I get very even developement with Pyrocat.
    The sponge thing is not necessary, so long as you can get something in there to clean the tubes out.
    I dropped mine once and the plastic cover on the bottom flew off. I haven't bothered to glue it back on and there have not been any detrimental affects . In fact, I think it looks cooler without it.
     
  11. Jim Noel

    Jim Noel Member

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    I have three different Expert drums and no sponge.

    I don't worry about drying between loads on a multi-load day. After the first load I stand the drum on end and fill each chamber with water. The film then slides in easily. After loading I let the drum stand for 5 minutes while I mix developer. Then I invert and empty the drum, place it on the JObo and it is ready for developer.
     
  12. MenacingTourist

    MenacingTourist Member

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    My experiences have been similar to everyone elses. I recently found a used 3005 that leaked like a sieve so I popped the back off to make the repairs. It's no big deal and it glued back without any problems.

    I use the drums on a Beseler base that reverses with a switch. I change directions about every 30 seconds on developer only. The rest I just let it go and make sure it doesn't drift too much and fall off. I LOVE Don's idea of the router gadget and I'm getting one asap. Thanks Don!

    I took the advice of many people (Galli, Smoo, Aggie, Robert Hall) and have only used the expert drums to develop my sheet film (about 2 years) so I don't have another point of reference. I don't see myself ever wanting to even think about another way since this is so very easy.

    I also don't have a darkroom so combined with a Harrison tent I have the perfect setup for my needs.
     
  13. don sigl

    don sigl Member

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  15. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    The bottom plate on my 3005 drum is fixed firmly in place and has 6 small slits about 1" long in it which are along the edges. According to Jobo diagrams, the tube has an outer jacket which is filled with water when the drum rotates. This water comes from the Jobo processor, and it instructs you to fill the processor up to cover the slits and then some.

    The outer jacket fills with water and tempers the 5 inner tubes with warm water which flows in and out of the drum as it rotates back and forth.

    When I lift the drum, it is so heavy I have to use one hand on the lift and the other on the base of the drum to lift it, and then I have to drain the tank over the sink by holding the drum upright allowing the water from the inner jacket to flow out into the sink.

    I then have to refill the tempering well in the processor with extra water to resupply that lost in the 3005 tank.

    This would not be the case on Unicolor rollers, but would with a Jobo with the water tempering unit.

    The extreme weight of this unit is one reason that Jobo beefed up the strength of the motor and lift.

    I don't discount the possibility that there may be several designs out there of the same 3005 tank though.

    PE
     
  16. paul ewins

    paul ewins Member

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    FWIW, I posted a photo of the inside of a 3010 drum on the LFinfo forum a few weeks back:
    http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=20814

    At some stage there has been a change made to the 3010 as one of my drums has numbering (in Roman numerals) for each tube on the top plate while the other two do not. I couldn't see any other changes, but then I only took the back of one of the drums.

    I would imagine that the the only differences between the 3005 and 3010 are the length, and the ridges in the 3010 that separate the sheets of film.
     
  17. markbb

    markbb Member

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    PE, this is not my experience of using the expert tanks on a jobo processor. A small amount of water leaks into the inner area (a few 10s of ccs) but hardly enough to temper the inner tubes. I've used the 3005, 3006 and 3010 for both E6 and B&W development with perfect results for the past few years.
     
  18. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    Mark- I have bothe 3005 and 3010 drums, and they both take on a fair bit of water, but it only requires a few seconds of draining over the water bath of my CPA to empty the water jacket, so it's no problem. There's enough to help hold the temperature inside the drum to a more constant level, but the drum liner is by no means full.
     
  19. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Mark;

    That may be true or not, it is what Jobo says happens. Mine takes up enough water to drop the level in the tempering bath. If I don't drain it directly into the bath, the level drops enough that I need more water next time around.

    Draining it into the bath is rather a pain for me as the Jobo sits rather high in the sink, and this means I have to lift the large drum very high to clear the top of the bath. In the sink, it is about 1 ft lower.

    Once, I forgot and deluged the floor with about 1 liter of water or so. I only did that once of course. I don't like to work with wet shoes around electrical equipment.

    PE
     
  20. MenacingTourist

    MenacingTourist Member

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  21. wilsonneal

    wilsonneal Member

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    Yes, I intend to get one of those speed regulator devices. I am also struggling with how rig a reversing switch on my Unicolor.

    It has an internal reversing switch. The switch is tripped by eccentric cog on the drive gear. I disabled the reversing action by crudely removing the ear on this cog, making it too short to touch the switch. I did this because the Unicolor doesn't go FAR enough to make a full revolution before reversing.

    I suppose I could somehow relocate this internal switch to the outside by de-soldering, adding longer wires, cutting a hole in the outside of the case. Ugh. Is there a plug and play way to reverse direction of a motor like this?

    I could wait for a Beseler base to come up on EBay. They have a switch you can throw to either reverse or not. I could run in one direction to full revolution and hit the reversing switch to go backwards.

    Other ideas? Has anyone permanently rigged a Unicolor or Beseler in a way that gives a full, reversing rotation on a 3005 drum?
    N
     
  22. don sigl

    don sigl Member

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    You don't really need a reversing switch if you are willing to pick the drum up about once a minute and set it back down in the reverse direction. This is what i do and i have no problems with uneven development. Seems easier than rewiring. Of course you do have to keep am eye on the clock and flip the drum. But you need to watch the drum anyway when on a Inicolr base. mine tends to creep to one side and tumble off the base if i don't keep an eagle eye on it.
     
  23. ChuckP

    ChuckP Subscriber

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    I've added some electronics to my Unicolor 352 to control the reversing time. Basically I added a 555 timer connected as an oscillator and controlling a relay that switches the motor. Or you could use a repeating relay that has a timer built in. But that part is expensive. Anyhow I play some with electronics and had the parts on hand. As said far easier to just switch it by hand every so often. I do find that the reversing does help with any walking of the drum and helps keep it centered. I reverse mine every 2 revolutions. Anyone know what Jobo recommends for reversing when using their hand roller?
     
  24. markbb

    markbb Member

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    PE, how deep in the water do your drums sit? I only allow a couple of mm, any deeper and I find the gears start straining, especially with 10x8 and a litre of chemicals on board.
     
  25. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Mark;

    My 2000 series drum sit as you describe, but the 3005 drum is supposed to sit deeply enough to cover the slits in the back of the drum and allow about 1 liter of water to flow through the slits into the chamber inside the drum.

    The gears and lift are strained on older Jobo units, but they have upgraded the mechanism due to that problem. It has been reported on here quite a bit and was described on the old Jobo web site.

    PE
     
  26. markbb

    markbb Member

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    Thanks,
    I was aware of the upgrade - and the cost!