Jobo CPP-2 lift gears

Discussion in 'Darkroom Equipment' started by MarkL, Sep 7, 2006.

  1. MarkL

    MarkL Subscriber

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    Anyone else have the problem with slipping gears, and also with the lift handle's base stripping where it seats inside the housing? My unit is about 20 years old (and not heavily used) and I don't know if there have been design improvements since then.

    I left a message 2 days ago at Jobo AG but no call back yet. I'm using an Expert 3006 tank for 4x5 film with 600ml solution. The slipping only occurs when the drum is weighted with solution and on one of the rotation direction changes. I pulled the two small gears and traded their positions and I thought the problem was solved but a couple minutes later it started slipping again. I have to help the drum along on the direction change to avoid the gears grinding or actually seizing, and I'm worried the motor might go.

    Mark
     
  2. Changeling1

    Changeling1 Member

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    A 20 year old CPP-2 would have been shipped with the first version rotation motor that has since been upgraded several times. It was found that the early model rotation motors were not strong enough for for use with the Expert Drums. You could replace the motor but it will cost around $650.00
    if you do the upgrade yourself. check out this link:
    http://www.jobousadarkroom.com/bulletins/b019.htm

    The lift arms fail in time. It's important to "help" the arm when raising it by lifting the drum with your free hand. Just using the lift will wear the arm out quickly- especially with the Expert drums.

    For the cost of upgrading the motor and buying a new lift arm you could
    probably buy a lightly used current model machine off of eBay for substantially less expense.
     
  3. Alan9940

    Alan9940 Member

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    Hello Mark,

    Sorry to hear you're having problems with your Jobo. I've had a CPP-2 w/lift for about 10 years using both the 3006 Expert Drum for 4x5 and various 1500/2500 series tanks for 35mm and 120. Being an amateur I wouldn't say that I've developed a lot of film with my Jobo, but I've never had any issue with slipping gears or any problem with the lift. That said, I do assist the lift when using the 3006 drum (regardless of solution amount) by grabbing and lifting the roller base with my right hand as I pull the lever with my left. If you don't do this I'd recommend it.

    Sorry, I know this really isn't an answer for you but I thought I'd pass on my experience with the same equipment. I'm pretty sure that Jobo is still repairing these units so I'm a little surprised that you haven't heard anything back. In the past, they've always been fairly responsive to any e-mails I've sent.

    Good luck!
     
  4. hka

    hka Member

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    For a realy good advice ask this technician. He was in early days also a member of the technical staff of JOBO AG. He replaced my motor some weeks ago for less than ½ the price mentioned above. He can deliver any sparepart of the JOBO dev.machines.
    Look at http://www.fotolaborservice.de/
     
  5. MarkL

    MarkL Subscriber

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    Thank you all for your help!
     
  6. Jim Noel

    Jim Noel Member

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    I just replaced my old CPP with an almost unused CPA 2 and have the same gear slipping problem. It seems no matter how much water is in the water bath or how much developer is in the Expert drum the problem persists. It occurs only when the drum is rotating in a closckwise direction.

    My solution so far has been to give slight assistance by placing my hand on top of the drum and pushing gently in the direction of rotation. It is a PITA but Ihave found no other.

    I used to get good answers from Jobo USA, but it is all but impossible to get them now.

    JIm
     
  7. MarkL

    MarkL Subscriber

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    Yeah. I'll probably go back to tray developing my b/w film.
     
  8. PKM-25

    PKM-25 Member

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    Old thread alert....

    Mine was doing this last night, same direction, clockwise only. I am thinking of shimming the drum end out a bit but can't see how to remove the gears, any ideas?

    Also, when using my Beseler motor base in single direction only, the film looked great, any drawbacks to using the Jobo single direction only?

     
  9. Keith Pitman

    Keith Pitman Subscriber

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    I bought a replacement gear on Ebay, and moved it to the other side. Fixed my slipping problem, at least for now.
     
  10. PKM-25

    PKM-25 Member

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    I just pulled the gears off, there is no way to really shim it, but oddly enough, I cleaned and re-greased them and then re-installed and the play it used to have is pretty much gone. There is a chance the prongs were not seated all the way. The gears look pretty much perfect, no wear that I can tell and the drum is like new...

    Last night was the first time I ever used it, I did 7 sheets of 4x5 in a 3010 drum with 1,000ML of chemistry ( yep, maxed it out just to see ). I had to help it along on the clockwise rotation. So after I hung the film to dry, I filled the drum with 600ML and it seemed ok. One thing I did notice is that on the cog side of the lift, there is a piece that comes down near the cog that has a hole in it that lines up with a hole in the motor housing as if a dowel pin of some sort needs to go in there, of which I do not have. Is it possible the the lift is getting jacked up by the torque of reversing and lifting slightly off of the motor gear and that is the noise I am hearing?

    Lastly, this unit might be a bit more labor intensive than is practical for me since I need to use it in the bathtub. I might just be better off with the Beseler motor base until I get a bigger place with a permanent darkroom space...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2012
  11. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

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    Re greasing the transfer gears will usually solve this issue. If the gears are worn out then they need to be replaced with a new set.
    Only New style lifts have a second (left hand) port for transfer gears, but note - there is a brass tube that holds the grease and axle in place in the right side port, but not in the left side, which basically means if you run a transfer gear only on the left side, it will chew away very fast along with putting heavy strain on your motor.

    PMK - you are most likely missing one (or more) of the main rotation motor mounting screws. Each of the two screws has two functions of holding the lift down in place, as well as holding the motor in place, and thus preventing the shaft from moving under stress, which may also contribute to slipping. Use a 5mm small thread screw from a hardware store, or contact me if you want an "original" overpriced jobo screw and washer.
     
  12. PKM-25

    PKM-25 Member

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    Looks like I am missing both screws...huh...

    So I took the motor head unit cover off and checked how long they need to be and it looks like about 1-1/4" to 1-3/8th". Another question then, the lower right hand screw hole on the main housing is countersunk and yet, the tab on the lift that fits over it does not really employ that at all. So am I just putting a flat washer under each screw and applying moderate torque?

    After I get it dialed in, I think it has to go back in storage until I can set it up in a real wet side darkroom. The amount of water wasted in dumping out the temperature bath each time I set it up in our only bathroom is verging on criminal given the extreme drought our region is in. In addition to that, we just don't have room for it.

    At least the Beseler motor base rocks nearly as good as the Jobo with the Expert drum...
     
  13. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

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    I am sorry but all these fractionsed numbers do not really mean anything to me, and aside from being kind of funny, are ridiculous if you want to get anything accurate.

    In any case, the original Jobo screws are exactly 3CM (thats 30 milimiters, or if an american feels left out here is a fractioned version 3/100 of a meter meter).
    That would make them 5X30mm.

    The Original Lift mount screws are made of Nylon, and only need to be finger tight, or slightly beyond that.

    As for the washers - you just need one small rubber washer, between the lift and control unit housing. The rubber washer should fit in the indent on the control housing and lock the screws in place.

    About water - unless you are running a high temp sensitive process like c-41 or E-6, you do not need to fill the trough.
    If you want a water jacket for roller lubrication\floatation aid, you can fill just the top red trough and set the dial to the max position.
    If the circulation pump is off, so is the heater (if you are running without water its important to make sure its off).
     
  14. PKM-25

    PKM-25 Member

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    Yes, they are silly numbers, but the correct bolt is a M6 x 30, not the 5mm you had suggested. And yes, I replaced the little rubber O- ring that goes in one of two countersinks...

    I ran 6 sheets of TMX just now, temps are nice to keep tight. I also put in a 1,000 ML pre-wet and it did perfect, have 600ML of D76 1:1, it all went well and the film came out beautiful.

    I might have to make room for this thing, the level of quality in processing is just in another league. I just found two 2553 drums and I have an idea for water bath reclamation for washes via a simple pump so I am going to work the CPP2 in....

    Thanks for your help!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2012
  15. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

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    If you want to get archival level wash, with minimal waste of water - look for the Jobo 3350 forced turbulence cascade washer, it fits any faucet or tap, and plugs directly in to the drum you are using.
    Get as low as 1lmp or less and still get archival wash in 5-10 mins.
    I do not have any in stock but they are on ebay every now and again - worth every penny. In fact you can just use the end section and connect it to any hose outlet you might have handy at any location.


    Glad to hear its working out for you.
    stand corrected on M6.