Jobo, Lift or no Lift?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by RedSun, Nov 6, 2012.

  1. RedSun

    RedSun Member

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    I have two Jobo CPE2, one with lift, one without lift. I tried both to process C-41 and so far I like the one without lift. For me, I see the pros and cons of the lift:

    1. Lift is simple if your darkroom is set up properly. But for me, the sink/drain is on the right hand side. So I have to collect the chemicals into bottles.
    2. Lift would have more cross-contamination. So it is great for one-shot processing. Since the chemicals go through the lift and also the pipe, chemicals get diluted rather faster.
    3. I see some leak out of the discharge pipe when I add chemicals to the tank through the lift. I do not think there is anything wrong with my lift, just the design of the lift. The leak is small, but just annoying to see the developer and bleach on my countertop.
    4. It is such a hassle in the rinse stage. To lift, you'll have to turn off the motor, move the lift and dump the water. Without the lift, I can keep the motor running, then just remove the tank and dump the water. I ended up doing the rinse every minute, instead of 30 seconds, which is not ideal.
    5. I feel I have more control without the lift. If I see anything not right, I can just uncouple the tank from the magnet. But for lift, you'll have to shut off the motor. Removing the tank is not that fast.

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. anikin

    anikin Subscriber

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    Actually, Jobo CPA2 manual said to not shut the motor off when using lift. Turn the motor on at beginning of processing and only turn it off when you are done. Is it different for CPE2?

    I agree with the other comments.
     
  3. RedSun

    RedSun Member

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    So you lift the lift with the motor still running? Would that damage the gears? No problem with magnet spindle.
     
  4. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    No, it won't damage the gears, they're designed for that.
     
  5. RedSun

    RedSun Member

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    I have the manual for CPP2, but most of the content is for regular operation without the lift. I'll read it again to see if the motor should be on when you remove the lift.
     
  6. antmar

    antmar Member

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    I have a CPE2 with lift and I use it very often for the last 3 years (more than 100 running circles), after been advised by the local retailer I never stopped the motor and I never had any problem. Some "grag -grug" noises sometimes during engagement are natural and harmless.
     
  7. Oren Grad

    Oren Grad Subscriber

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    I use a CPA-2 with the motor set for reversing motion. You learn to time the lift so that you engage and disengage the coupling during the brief pause as the motor reverses.
     
  8. jerrybro

    jerrybro Subscriber

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    I removed the lift from my CPE2+. I was never comfortable with the extra motor drag and the squeaks the plastic made while lifting.
     
  9. grahamp

    grahamp Subscriber

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    My CPE2+ is on the left side of my sink, so I put an extension hose on the drain pipe. This lets me dump to waste, or to a bottle as needed. If the drain is flooding when you pour in a chemical, you are pouring just a little too fast. Any process that is subject to serious contamination usually includes a rinse step. That should be cleaning your lift piping,

    On the other hand, if you prefer the magnet base, go for it.
     
  10. RedSun

    RedSun Member

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    Just a silly question, how do you remove the tank away from the lift? The manual says, to hold the end of tank and push the tank upward and forward. But since we use the lower connection with 15xx and 2xxx tanks, the middle nipple blocks the tanks. So what is the best way to safely remove the tank from the lift?
     
  11. LJH

    LJH Member

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    Given I wash my film in the tanks (usually put through at least 10 batches of fresh water per film), there is no chance of contamination. It would be the same as you are subjected to wen you clean your tank after finishing processing, regardless of the process regime.

    I, too, have the sink on the "wrong" side of the tank; however, this has never been an issue for dumping chemicals. The tank's mouth is always higher than the bottom of the hose when lifted, so it is easy to capture the stop-bath/fixer when they've finished their work. I'm not sure why you cannot do this? The only issue for me comes when I want to empty the tempered bath water where I need to turn the processor around to drain it. But, again, it would be easy to capture this in a bucket placed under the hose if I could be bothered…

    You physically might feel that you have more control without the lift; however, I feel that the introduction of chemicals via the lift (especially the Developer) is a much better way than to have to pour it in to an upright tank. As the machine is agitating as I do it, I feel that the initial chemical contact with the film is both controlled and repeatable. I have never had an issue with banding etc. from introduction of the developer (but I do prewash, something I feel is necessary for good negs in Jobo).

    Just my way of working. YMMV.
     
  12. RedSun

    RedSun Member

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    For a standard C-41, it is bleach just after developer, no rinse. So clearly you'll lose developer and the bleach will be diluted rather quickly. With the tank off the machine, I can be sure that most of the developer is dumped. But with it on the lift, I'm not certain.

    My CPE2 sits on a flat large surface (metal). To catch the chemical dump, I have to put the bottle below the surface. Even after you catch most of the dump, the hose still drips liquid. I just do not like to clean the spill. This can not avoided. But I may put a developing tray under the hose to catch any spill and rinse the tray instead.

    The other limitation of the CPE2 is the small size. You'll have to prepare your own rinse water since you do not have enough room in the tempering bath. Also, when you remove two chemical bottles, the bath water level drops quite a bit. This can remedied with the CPP2, but it is such a waste of bath water if you only want to develop 2 rolls of films, or a couple of prints.

    It is all compromise.....
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2012
  13. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    I leave the motor running when I am raising the lift.

    The lift is especially helpful when using the Expert Tanks, which are large and heavy.
     
  14. RedSun

    RedSun Member

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    You can't run expert drums on CPE2.