Jorge sent a contact print to me...

Discussion in 'Contact Printing' started by Sean, Dec 16, 2002.

  1. Sean

    Sean Admin Staff Member

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    Jorge was kind enough to send one of his 8x10 contact prints to me.

    WOW!

    I can confirm without doubt, Jorge not only talks the talk, but he walks the walk! The subject matter, and the print are ABSOLUTELY gorgeous. I gazed at it for atleast 30 minutes, then took it straight to the framing shop to get framed.

    I look forward to doing my own 8x10 contact printing soon and Jorge's print is definitely inspirational. I think some of us should eventually set up a print exchange of some kind.

    Thank You Jorge!
     
  2. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

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    You are welcome Sean I am very happy you liked it! I think the print echange is a good idea as it is the only way we can really see the impact of a print. In my experience downloaded images are never close to the real thing, specially in pt/pd or some of the other alternative processes.

    So Jay, are you still up to it? [​IMG]
     
  3. bmac

    bmac Member

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    I'm not Jay, but I am interested in it!
     
  4. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

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    Aha! Brian, then you just have been volunteered to become the organizer for a print exchange. [​IMG]

    So the idea is some of us will mail you prints and you redistribuit them, or something like this. Once the prints are in circulation then you can just have a list and e mail each participant to who they should mail the print next, etc, etc. If you have a better idea then let us know.
     
  5. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member

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    I was thinking maybe a circulating portfolio. You could have a list of contributors, and each person could hang on to the portfolio for a week, say, then ship it on to the next contributor. When it comes back around to you, you could take your print out and put in another.
     
  6. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

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    David, that sounds like an excellent idea. If someone here is willing to work out the details, count me in.
     
  7. bmac

    bmac Member

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    I like David's point as well. I don't mind taking the project on at all. (Thanks Jorge) [​IMG] What do you guys think of an anonymous portfolio? We could open up a critique thread and give honest critiques without knowing who the photographer is... Just an idea.

    I suggest we limit print size to 11x14 max (or anything else smaller). I can buy a cheapy pratt portfolio to house everything in.

    Any other ideas?

    Brian
     
  8. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

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    I would say 8x10 should be the max, not that I mind bigger prints, but the cost of shipping etc, would add up with something so big.
    If we are going to do this, then I think we should all chip in for the portfolio, is not fair to Brian to make him take this cost.

    As to the critique I think that defeats the idea of the exchange, this would be scanned prints which I find lacking. If there is something we absolutely have to say about a print I guess we can always add a little note. I dont know I guess this is something we can leave up to the group once we get going. I would rather not participate in a critique either giving or receiving but I suppose some people like this and it might be a good option for them.
     
  9. bmac

    bmac Member

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    Either way works for me Jorge. I don't think the added weight of 11x14 prints is going to make much of a difference though. We're not talking about sending 100 prints here [​IMG] As for the portfolio, that doesn't matter either. I was thinking of a cheap plastic one. They cost less than $20 locally.

    Brian
     
  10. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member

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    I like Jorge's approach. I'm just interested to see what people are doing, and maybe have a discussion thread to talk about the portfolio.

    Maybe we should actually invest in a nice portfolio designed for shipping without having to be boxed, perhaps with a clear plastic window on the outside for a shipping label. Anyone know who makes such a thing? I would be willing to check down at Pearl Paint here in New York, which has a pretty decent selection of portfolios at good prices, unless someone has a good online source or other local source in their area.
     
  11. Jim Chinn

    Jim Chinn Member

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    Here are some of my comments and suggestions:

    It's a great idea. If we can settle on a proper shipping container and some other logistical parameters I would also volunteer to get a traveling portfolio organized. I would be willing to contribute to the cost of a shippable portfolio. Perhaps the only requirement to be included could be a small one time fee to help pay the total cost, paid at the time the print is shipped to the organizer(s).

    I think we need to determine the optimal number of participants to be included to make the number of prints manageble and cost of shipping between participants reasonable. If we have more participants, I guess we start a list and they go into a second portfolio after the first is completed.

    Size wise I think we need to decide how prints will be presented. There will not be much weight difference between actual 8x10 and 11x14 prints, but if we are talking mounted to a mat, then the weight difference will be substantial per print. I for one do not feel comfortable sending an unmounted fiber print. I would be OK with sending an RC version as curling of the print is not an issue, but I perfer to present my best effort and that means FB paper mounted.

    I also like the idea of having a forum to discuss the work between participants. I think all participants should agree that any work that is traded between participants is a free exchange of work.

    We also need to set out some discalimers such as APUG, its organizers and participants are not responsible for the unauthorized use or misuse of an image and are not responsible for loss due to theft, damage, bungling by the shipping agent etc.

    The participants should include any and all information they can fit on to one sheet paper. At the minimum include your name with the print. If you want to share a story or technical data about the photograph I think that would also be great.

    Please comment on my ideas and include me in the first run. Perhaps we need to issue a "call for entries" to see what the interest is.
     
  12. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member

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    It doesn't look like it should be a problem right off, but I would suspect around 15-20 prints would be the maximum per portfolio, considering that it has to come around with a certain frequency to sustain a conversation about its contents.

    Matted prints lend themselves better to a box-type portfolio, where the matted prints are simply stacked. Unmounted prints would work better with a loose-leaf type portfolio, with black pages and acetate sheaths. We might want to agree on what sort of presentation we prefer. I have no strong preference either way.

    If we go with matted prints, each contributor could print out an information sheet and tack it to the back of the mount. If we go with unmounted prints, the info sheet could go on the backside of the portfolio page.

    I'd lean toward 8x10" as a maximum size, but lament that that would exclude submissions of contact prints from ULF negs. We could go with an 11x14" portfolio and just say that if contributors want to include an 11x14" contact print, it will have to be flush mounted. (Of course, then I'll really want to see one of William Levitt's 12x15's from his new camera, and one of Carl Weese's 7x17's, and...anyone shooting 20x24" around here?).

    The call for entries would certainly be a necessity.
     
  13. bmac

    bmac Member

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    For starters, we should probably start a new thread for the call for entries. I am sure that at least 50% of the APUG members aren't contact printing or reading this thread [​IMG] I'll cast my vote for 11x14 matted in a box.
     
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  15. avandesande

    avandesande Member

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    To tell you the truth, I would be mainly interested in contact prints. A whole-apug print exchange would be nice too though.

    --Aaron
     
  16. Nige

    Nige Subscriber

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    how does this 'travelling portfolio' work? Do you replace your own print when it returns to you?

    Say you have 5 participants.

    The 'organiser' (Person A) sends a pic to the 1st reciepient (Person B ). B adds a pic to the folder, and sends it on to C, etc. Once it gets back to A there will be 5 pics (4 they haven't seen) and they replace their pic with a new one then send it on to B. They get to view 4 new pics and replace theirs and send it on to C, etc

    So, once it gets back to you, you'll have 4 (in this example) new pics to look at.

    Is that what you envisage?
     
  17. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member

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    Yes, that's what I was thinking.

    It means the first few people won't have much to look at, but I figure that's only on the first round, and it avoids the logistical problem of assembling the prints at the beginning of every cycle and means people can jump in and drop out any time (i.e., we can add new addresses to the list as we go, or someone could withdraw when it comes back to them).
     
  18. Jim Chinn

    Jim Chinn Member

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    I concur with the idea of starting with one person and then sending it along a list of people who add a print when they receive it. I am also ok with the idea of a loose-leaf style portfolio for unmounted prints to begin with. If anyone can recommend some specific brand names of suitable portfolios for 11x14, please list them and I will see what is available locally. I think B&H or Freestyle handle various presentation portfolios and they may be the least expensive option.

    I suppose the next thing is perhaps those of us currently discussing this reach a consensus on some of the ideas posted so far and then present them in a seperate thread on the announcement forum.
     
  19. SteveGangi

    SteveGangi Member

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    Just curious. Would a Kodak or Fuji machine enlargement of Polaroid shots be acceptable?
     
  20. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

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    Ok, some observations. If people want to mount the print this does not have to be on a mat board, you can mount it on heavy weight hot pressed watercolor paper which will lend "body" to the print without making it too heavy or cumbersome.
    So as it stand the consensus is:

    1- revolving portfolio size 11x14
    2- either contact prints or enlargements up to 11x14
    3- observations, questions, could be added to a note or page. Critique? not stablished yet.
    4- prints will have name and/or information attached to the back of the print.
    5- participants will e mail their address to either Brian or David and they will in turn will compile them and put them in somekind of e mailable list (xcel?) in the order in which the portofolio will be mailed.
    6- Number of participants? I think 20 is a good number. If we have more then we can start a second portfolio.
    7- The organizers will e mail a little form or statement which will say that APUG, the staff, and the organizers of the exchange are not responsible for missuse, loss, shipment damage etc, of the prints. Each members who includes a print must print this little form and sign it and attach it to the print.


    One more thing to think of is the country of origin of the member. Some of us reside outside of the US and shipping to/from us will be more expensive. For example the member who is to be before me will have to ship the portfolio to Mexico (more expensive) this will in turn take more time to get here (usually 2 weeks air mail). In my case shipping back to the US is not a big deal since mail boxes etc can get it done in 7 to 10 days, but if we are talking to Australia or NZ then we have a whole new ball of wax to deal with. So I propose those who wish to participate e mail your address to Brian/David ( I leave it up to them to coordinate) and see which are the mayority of the members and their countries. As much as I would regret not to be able to participate I would understand if this exchange is made only for members in the US, etc. for logistical reasons.

    So lets make a descision here on these points and have either Brian or David post a "call for participants" for the print exchange.

    PS. Steve is up to you, if you think the Fuji enlargement is a good example of your best work then by all means do it.
     
  21. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member

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    Seems like a good summary, Jorge. Brian and I need to talk, then, to see how to organize things. I'm happy to do some of the organization, but at the same time if Brian or someone else feels strongly about doing it or wants to split up the duties in some way, that's fine with me too.

    I think it would be great if this were an international exchange. Maybe once the list of participants is established, we can find a few volunteers willing handle the more hefty postal fees, or if we have the right combination, maybe we can sequence them so that it's not too onerous for anyone.

    On Steve's machine reprint issue, I agree with Jorge. Obviously we are taking some risk by shipping a portfolio around the world, and I can certainly understand why someone wouldn't want to put a unique item like a Polaroid at risk like that. Of course individual conventional prints are unique in their own way, but Polaroids even more so.
     
  22. Jim Chinn

    Jim Chinn Member

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    Good summary Jorge. I think we will want to include any and all from anywhere. I had one other suggestion.

    How about every person include two identical prints when the portfolio gets to them and then the next person in line keeps one of those prints and in turn includes two prints.

    Example: I am the first person on the list. I mail the container to Brian with two of my prints. Brian keeps one and inludes two of his own. He mails to Jorge. Jorge keeps one of Brian's and includes two of his own. Next person keeps one of Jorge's prints and has the prints by Brian and me to view. He sends two prints to the next person who keeps one etc.
    At the end of the cycle of 20 people, everyone has been able to view all the prints and have one to keep. The next time around you start with someone different so when the keeper comes around they will be from a different photographer.

    This only means one extra print in the portfolio, but everyone exchanges a print with someone else, as well as viewing the work of those woh preceeded.


    The only other question I think we need to finalize, is everyone going to send a print to one person first? This way everyone can see all the work at once and the first person would include two prints to get the exchange part rolling or,

    Do we just begin with one person and build the portfolio overtime and after the first run through everyone will pull their "old" print and then include two new ones as it gets to them. This way the first person actually becomes the last because he is the final person to see the original portfolio before prints are switched out.


    Sorry if this is somewhat rambling, I am short on time right now. Please add comments or critique of the above ideas.
     
  23. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member

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    I think logistically it will be easier to start with one person and build it slowly. That means the first time around the first few people won't see many prints, but they'll get to see the whole round when it comes back to them.

    If we were to try to have a complete portfolio from the beginning, that adds the complication of everyone having to send in a print by a certain deadline, and if one or two people were too slow, it would delay the whole process, and then the originator would have to worry about returning all the prints at the end and assembling all the new ones.

    With the revolving portfolio system, where you just add a print when it comes around and remove your old one, you avoid all the problems of collecting and returning.

    As to the idea of incorporating a permanent exchange with the revolving portfolio, I like the idea in theory, but there is the issue that we might have participants of widely varying levels--some of whom may be amateurs interested in critique and some of whom may be working artists who can normally sell their prints for high prices through galleries--and this may create some awkwardness that could discourage participation. Perhaps it would be best to organize this sort of exchange in parallel, privately or through a discussion forum.
     
  24. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

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    I agree with David, I would love to be able to give a print to all the members, but pt/pd is not cheap, I cannot afford to include an extra print every time the portfolio comes around.
     
  25. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member

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    Okay, Brian and I are working on this. I'm looking at portfolio cases, and Brian will open a new thread with the call for participation.
     
  26. lee

    lee Member

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    I know I am getting to this late but the print exchange I was in did it this way. There was an address list that was published and if there were 10 people on the list you make 9 prints and at some predetermined date the 9 prints get mailed to the addresses on the list and then everyone is covered and can keep the prints to do with as they please within the laws of copyright law. At some future date then the list can talk about the photos they received. Sort of a critque.

    Any interest in doing it that way????

    lee