Kentmere Bromide getting much to warm..

Discussion in 'Contact Printing' started by rootberry, Jul 26, 2007.

  1. rootberry

    rootberry Member

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    So that past 2 printing sessions I have been getting very warm contacts with kentmere bromide paper, and I can't figure out exactly why! I'm using ansco 130 1:1, and selenium toning 1:100. I mixed fresh chemicals and I'm still getting the problem, with prints coming out almost brown. They don't look bad, just way to warm for my taste. I just bought a new box of gr3, so I really hope it's not the paper.. Could fixer have anything to do with it?
     
  2. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    Hmmm, I use Kentmere Bromide with Ansco 130 (PF130) mixed 1:1 and selenium tone at 1:100 for 4 minutes. I get a neutral to slightly cool tone which turns just a touch pink with the toner. I get the same result with all 3 grades. I'm not sure about what effect the fixer may have... though I've mixed my own crystals with a touch of sodium bi-sulfite and used Sprint fixer without problems. I sure hope it isn't a change in the paper... I'm really happy with the results I'm getting. My paper stock was bought last year but I'm getting low. I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. All the best. Shawn
     
  3. rootberry

    rootberry Member

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    The problem isn't all that pronounced with some prints. I just recently started mounting my prints, which exagerates the effect by a large factor. I put the white overmat on and kind of had a holy crap moment. I've read up on selenium toner, and as far as I can find it doesn't go bad. Do you use KRST shawn?
     
  4. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    Kodak Rapid Selenium Toner indeed. Are you using it with distilled water? I usually do. Other than that I don't know what to tell you. I'm not a much of a technical guy... Best. Shawn
     
  5. doughowk

    doughowk Subscriber

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    Try adding some benzotriazole. I use 15ml of 1% benzo per liter and got very rich blacks on Kentmere Bromide.
     
  6. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    What should he try adding it to? I get very rich blacks with my setup, and it sounds identical to rootberry's. Shawn
     
  7. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

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    This sounds very strange indeed. I've been trying to get Kentmere Bromide to go a little warm and have never been able to do it. I've used amidol, Neutol WA, PPPD and lately PF 130. I've even added extra KBr to the 130. I've toned in KRST at 1:20. 1:50, and 1:100. Used three different fixers too, all of them rapid fixers. Lately its been TF4. All of the chemicals are mixed with the local tap water.
     
  8. rootberry

    rootberry Member

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    ?!
    That is indeed strange. I am using PF130, water stop, tf4, KRST 1:100 for 3-4 min! Brown tones. I mix my developer with distilled water, mayhap I'll try tap water.. Confusing. Could the problem lie in the negatives? The light source?
     
  9. kjsphoto

    kjsphoto Subscriber

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  10. juan

    juan Subscriber

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    rootberry, you don't say where in the world you are - are you in the Northern Hemisphere? I haven't used Kentmere Bromide in awhile, but I do use Kentona. I made wonderful, neutral prints using amidol and 130 in the spring, but when the summer temperatures went up, I began to get a yellow fog. I emailed Kentmere, and the folks there told me that the EU had forced them to remove cadmium from their papers, and the result was a tendency to developer fogging. They recommended exposing more and having the print in the developer less time.

    That wasn't an acceptable solution to me, so I experimented with adding KBr and benzotriazole to my developers until I got rid of the fog and got the print color I like. As I say, this was with Kentona.

    If you are in the northern climes and your darkroom temperatures have gone up, you may well have the same problem. As Doug says, adding some benzo may be the answer.
    juan
     
  11. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    I don't know if this helps, but how do you store your paper? In the darkroom, or outside it? Keeping them in the darkroom can contaminate them.
    I've had the same problem juan is mentioning with Kentona. With Bromide I've only had the odd speck of yellow, but guess what, that was from not washing the prints properly.
    My darkroom has been anywhere from 67*F to 75*F, representing the chemistry temperature at the time too.
    I've used the same A130 / TF4 combination as you, with the difference that I didn't selenium tone.
    - Thomas
     
  12. rootberry

    rootberry Member

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    I store my paper in a large black plastic box, with a snap on lid in the darkroom. The paper itself couldn't have been modified by being in the darkroom, because I printed the same day a new box of grade3 came. My darkroom temp usually stays around 70F. I wash my paper under running water in trays ATM, face up for 1.5 hours generally.

    Juan, how long did kentmere tell you to leave the paper in the developer for? Ansco is pretty fast working, but I couldn't see developing for less than say 40seconds. Perhaps my developer does need to be modified.
     
  13. juan

    juan Subscriber

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    Kentmere was recommending about one minute developing times. I had no problems when my darkroom temp was 70F, so I don't think we had the same problem.
    juan
     
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  15. rootberry

    rootberry Member

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    My developing time is one minute mostly. I think I'm going to go pick up some dektol and powder fixer tommorow, maybe my past few ansco mixes have been bad or hexed or cursed.. or something.
     
  16. Michel Hardy-Vallée

    Michel Hardy-Vallée Membership Council Council

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    I use PF 130 1+1 on Kentmere Bromide G3, hypo-clear, wash, tone in selenium 1+9 for 5 to 8 minutes and never got anything close to a warm tone. It's always cold. Temperature has been pretty high lately (30C with high humidity) and even then, it didn't change anything. My pf 130 is dark like coke, and it still gives the same results as when it's fresh.

    Have you contacted Kentmere? Maybe you got a defective batch?
     
  17. rootberry

    rootberry Member

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    wow! Ok, I'm really confused then- because I've ALWAYS had a semi-warmish tone with this combo, but it has gotten worse recently. I don't think it's possible that I've had defective batches one after another. I've been through 2 25 sheet boxes of grade 2, 2 boxes of 100 sheet gr 3, and 3-4 25 sheet boxes of grade 4.. Guess I'll get in contact with kentmere then.
     
  18. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    Please keep us updated, rootberry. It almost sounds like they packed Kentona in your Bromide box! Good luck figuring this out. Best. Shawn
     
  19. rootberry

    rootberry Member

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    I would be really floored if that was the problem, but anything is possible. I'm going to get back into the darkroom in the next 2 days or so and try to figure this one out. I'll keep you guys updated.
     
  20. CBG

    CBG Member

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    Are you hot mounting the prints that go really warm? Some folks have mentioned color/warmth changes that occur when prints are heated to mount them.

    Best,

    C
     
  21. rootberry

    rootberry Member

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    No CBG, I have narrowed the problem down- and it's not the toner. I am getting this overly warm tone with just the ansco, water stop, and fixer. Tommorow I am going back to square one, going to test different lighting sources, turn off the safelight and see what happens.. I guess it could be the lightbulb I use for contact printing. I use a 7.5 watt bulb in a "box" that projects around a 16x16" square of light so I can dodge and burn accurately.. Could it be a problem with my bulb?
     
  22. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    Sounds to me like you are having paper fog from something...either the safelight or the exposing lamp. I had this happen with MAS Amidol formula when I developed the paper for a longer than normal period (cold darkroom temps)...this was with graded Adox and a Zone VI safelight on high (graded paper)setting.

    I finally decided it was the combination of the time in developer in conjunction with the higher safelight exposure. I cut the safelight intensity and came back down on my development time and the problem was eliminated. Higher ambient or developer temperatures would tend to exacerbate the problem, I would think.
     
  23. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    I didn't realize that fogging in such a manner would effect the color of the paper... very interesting. Thanks for the info, Donald.

    Rootberry, for reference (since we're using the same materials) my safe light is a small bulb in a reflector with a thick red/plexi gel over it. My darkroom is small and always warm. My development times with PF130 are between 50 and 65 seconds depending on the negative and age of the developer. Best. Shawn
     
  24. rootberry

    rootberry Member

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    Shawn, that is exactly how I would describe my darkroom. I use a very small safelight, use the same development times, and have mild darkroom temps. I know that you mostly contact print Shawn, but do you use an enlarger as your light source?
     
  25. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

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    I use an enlarger for the light source. I raise the head to be 24 inches above the printing frame then vary the lens aperture to keep the exposure times in the 30-45 second range or so. Never has any discernible problems with this method.
     
  26. rootberry

    rootberry Member

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    If only I could afford more than a lightbulb hanging from the ceiling! =(