Kentona in Amidol looks Yellow

Discussion in 'Contact Printing' started by gbenaim, Dec 2, 2008.

  1. gbenaim

    gbenaim Member

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    Hi all,

    Just doing my first run of Azo in amidol, what a treat! I wanted to see how kentona compares in amidol, having heard such good things about it, but it comes out yellowish, in the same amidol that gives a very neutral azo print. Those of you w some experience, how do you control Kentona's color? I used 3 cc of KBr 10%, just so you know, and am using MAS's amidol formula for azo and artcraft amidol. Amidol waterbath is just an incredible tool!

    GB
     
  2. Travis Nunn

    Travis Nunn Member

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    I don't have any experience with Kentona in amidol, but I did have a similar experience with Kentona and lith printing (yellowing borders and highlights).

    Here's a couple of threads to look over
    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/41019-kentona-pepper-fogging-fresh-lith-developer.html
    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum55/41207-kentmere-bromide-getting-much-warm.html#post497732 (Read Juan's comment at the bottom of the first page)
    http://www.apug.org/forums/forum37/49698-lith-problem-kentona.html

    I know your problem may be a little different, but the solution may be the same.
     
  3. Trevor Crone

    Trevor Crone Member

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    GB, have you tried reducing the volume of KBr? Michael's formula calls for 1ml of 10% KBr for his Azo/amidol. I know it's a different product you're using it for but if you've not already reduced the KBr volume it might be worth a go?
     
  4. Silverpixels5

    Silverpixels5 Member

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    I used to get yellowing of kentona as well with Ansco 130. Seems the problem came from using a water stop followed by fixing with TF-4. I solved the problem by going from the developer to a citric acid stop, then a water bath, and then TF-4. Just was white as can be now.
     
  5. gbenaim

    gbenaim Member

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    yellow kentona

    I should specify that the yellowish tone is not on the base, but on the silver itself, i.e. the actual dark tones. MAS's amidol formula calls for 2-3 ml of KBr 10%.
     
  6. Nicholas Lindan

    Nicholas Lindan Advertiser

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    There has been talk of yellow stains with Kentona and Dektol on the Pure Silver mailing list. The consensus was that it was due to a defective batch of paper.
     
  7. michael9793

    michael9793 Subscriber

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    first of all comparing kentona to azo using amidol is like comparing how the grain in a tri-x 35mm neg to a t-max 100 8x10. there just isn't any comparison.

    sorry I know the truth hurts. LOL
     
  8. Trevor Crone

    Trevor Crone Member

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    Sorry, you're correct I was refering to my notes using 500ml of developer and not 1L. However MAS amidol recommends 6ml 10% KBr/litre for enlarging paper. Although thinking about it I would be surprised if its the KBr causing the yellowish tone.
     
  9. Richard Boutwell

    Richard Boutwell Member

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    Hi Gabby,

    is the yellow tone there while the print is still wet, or only after it has dried? Is it only in the dark tones, or uniformly yellow from the shadows to highlights?

    I used Kentona for only a couple printing sessions, but from what I can remember, it is slightly purple, not yellow. The only things I can think of is that it is a bad batch of paper, as someone else has suggested, or there is some contamination someplace in the process. Is it possible to post a scan in this thread so we can see what the problem is. I don't think it is the bromide; I tend to use a lot of it, and didn't have that problem.
     
  10. gbenaim

    gbenaim Member

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    Hey Richard,

    The print was yellow wet, and I didn't wait til it dried, just chucked it and went back to the Azo. I'd rule out contamination because the Azo came out great every time, and it being a bad batch because I've used it before w Ansco 130 and it worked fine. All I can think of is that the print didn't develop fully at 1 minute, so next time I'll give it 2-3 and let it dry to see how it comes out.

    GB
     
  11. Michael A. Smith

    Michael A. Smith Subscriber

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    Developing for one minute is ONLY for silver chloride paper. For enlarging paper, two, or probably better, three minutes, is what you should be aiming for. Try it and see if the yellow stain is still there.

    Michael A. Smith
     
  12. Bruce Osgood

    Bruce Osgood Membership Council

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    I've cut and pasted from the Pure-Silver list a Freestyle Photo response to the question of Yellowing Kentona:

    [pure-silver] Fwd: Kentona, response from Freestyle Photo
    From: Elias Roustom <elroustom@xxxxxxxxx>
    To: pure-silver@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
    Date: Fri, 5 Dec 2008 08:19:30 -0500
    Hello Group, here's some useful information from our favorite b&w supplier:


    From: "Oliver Tan" <oliver@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    Date: December 4, 2008 6:35:32 PM EST
    To: <elroustom@xxxxxxxxx>
    Subject: RE: Kentona, Sent By: Elias Roustom (71.233.146.100)

    Hi Elias,


    We know of this problem before. The reason why there are some stains on
    the paper is because Kentmere removed the cadmium that it originally
    came with. Basically, this changed the whole composition of the emulsion. A solution to correct this problem is to change developer and use distilled water. The less this paper soaks in chemicals, the better it will be for the paper also. If you are using a metol based developer, try switching to a phenidone base developer or vice versa. Water also plays a part in this chemical reaction that's why distilled water is
    suggested.

    Europe is trying to ban cadmium because it is a known carcinogenic.
    Manufacturers, not only in photography, but also in paints and others
    reformulated their ingredients to remove cadmium.

    Hope this clears up everything. Let us know if you need more information
    or have any more questions.

    Oliver Tan
    Retail Asst. Manager
    Freestyle Photographic Supplies
    oliver@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
    323.660.3460 x152

    -----Original Message-----
    From: elroustom@xxxxxxxxx [mailto:elroustom@xxxxxxxxx]
    Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 12:54 PM
    To: www.darkroom
    Subject: Kentona, Sent By: Elias Roustom (71.233.146.100)


    Are you at Freestyle aware of the problems people are having printing on Kentona? I've uploaded two prints onto Flickr to show the staining that
    is happening. http://www.flickr.com/photos/elroustom/3082943772/

    I've found a photo.net thread where others are seeing the same thing.
    Maybe between you and Kentmere you can figure it out. Unfortunately I
    have about 12 sheets left, and they're useless...
     
  13. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

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    I had the same problem with Kentona and arrived at the answer purely by chance. I started mixing my PF 130 with distilled water solely due to the 130's long life. I wanted to reduce the chance of contamination as much as I could. Voila`! Kentona suddenly looked better. Also found that two to three minutes developing is needed.

    As much as I liked Kentona, there needs to be a grade 3 version of it. I never have had much success in getting contrast to increase very much.
     
  14. gbenaim

    gbenaim Member

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    Alex, I thought the Kentona was a grade 3, they only call it 2 in England. LEaving it in longer, up to 4 mins, is supposed to give you more contrast. I solved the problem, btw, it just needed more development.
     
  15. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

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    Well, we all know there's lots of slop in the grade numbers. Comparing it to all the other papers I use or have used, I just can't seem to get it beyond about 2.5 even with extended development. I think Kentmere would have a real winner if they brought back a grade 3.
     
  16. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Subscriber

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    First of all, Alex, I'm with you. Bring back Grade 3 Kentona!!! Even so, I love grade two.

    I have never experienced the "yellow". I use it with MAS Amidol (LOTS of KBR) and Ansco 130. I also use distilled water.

    I'm guessing Michael is correct, I never develop it (with Amidol) for less than 2 minutes.

    Edit: Looks like you figured it out already...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2008
  17. michael9793

    michael9793 Subscriber

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    I have a better Idea!!!!!!!!
    instead of switching developers or changing your whole system try a different paper. why should we be the ones to change our system for a company that changes things for the worst. Their MC paper can only be used with yellow and magenta. using it with a zone VI enlarger produces horrible results.( this info is on the sheet that comes with the paper) Instead of changing my system I found a paper that works with my system. That happens to be Oriental Seagull. Graded or MC this paper is hands down better than anything Kentmere can produce. Now you get yellowing.. My goodness what we will try to do to get a bad paper to work.

    P.S. I throw out over $300.00 of kentmere paper and cried about being so commented to a bad product. No I won't sell it because if I can't get good prints I'm not selling a bad product to someone just to here from them about the same problem.
    mja
     
  18. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Subscriber

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    I'm surprised to hear that, Michael. The best contact prints I've ever made on any enlarging paper were made on Kentona. Hands down, not even close to anything else I have tried...

    As always it comes down to what works best for each individual.
     
  19. Alex Hawley

    Alex Hawley Member

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    It would be nice if all one's negatives would print well on a single grade paper. But, try as we might, that just never seems to happen. Kentona loves a good dense negative, one that prints with full tonality on just about anyone's grade 2. If there was a grade 3, I could just about standardize on using it. Things being what they are, Slavich comes in grades 2 through 4 and there's Ilford MG for the really tough ones. Slavich and Ilford are close enough in tone color that one doesn't get a noticeable shift in color when viewing the portfolio.
     
  20. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    There is a way to eliminate the yellow stain in all cases, I think.

    PE
     
  21. JLP

    JLP Subscriber

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    i agree with Michael's statement. Kentona can be a great paper but often it is not. The emulsion is so sensitive and just a slightly prolonged wash will make the emulsion peel of if not handled very very careful.
    Forget about using thongs with this paper unless you print on larger paper than your actual print.

    jan
     
  22. Ray Rogers

    Ray Rogers Member

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    Did you fall asleep at the computer?
     
  23. gbenaim

    gbenaim Member

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    Thanks for all the help, problem solved.