Kodachrome as B&W Neg

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by ssloansjca, Jan 20, 2009.

  1. ssloansjca

    ssloansjca Member

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    I have some exposed PKR120 that I want to try to save the images on. It has been kept deep frozen for a very long time. Is there any information on how to process this as a B&W Neg Film anywhere?

    I hear it requires a high contrast developer like D19???


    ~Steve Sloan
     
  2. Fredrik Sandstrom

    Fredrik Sandstrom Member

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    I'd suggest you get some KR in 35mm format, make lots of identical exposures at ISO 64, and process them in different ways, to see which method yields the best results for you. Then use that for your 120 film.

    Some things you need to know about: Kodachrome has a remjet backing which needs to be removed either before processing (preferable, if you can manage it in total darkness) or after. Secondly, there's a yellow filter in the film that you cannot get rid of if you process into a negative. Thus the negatives might be hard to print from optically, but they should scan fine. If you do reversal processing, the yellow filter will go away.

    Good luck!
     
  3. tiberiustibz

    tiberiustibz Member

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    You'll need to compensate for spped loss. Generally it needs to be processed as a positive reversal. This is tricky because you don't know how it has fared. There are directions, but you need to remove the remjet backing using a solution of sodium sulfite (1 T per liter) and then develop in D19. You bleach it and clear it, and then re expose to room light. Then develop in anything (reuse the d19) for the positive image. If you're off you won't get good images and blow the highlights or shadows. It's risky at best.
     
  4. John W

    John W Member

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    I've read recommendations for Rocky Mountain Film for old film processing services. You'll need to contact them to discuss processing options for your particular film; for some Kodachrome films/formats they process to color slides, but for others the only remaining option is to process to B&W as you suggested.
     
  5. Fredrik Sandstrom

    Fredrik Sandstrom Member

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  6. John W

    John W Member

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    Wow! I stand corrected; apparently whomever I caught that reference from wasn't actually a customer... Thanks for the notice.
     
  7. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I noticed that we don't seem to have a thread dedicated to this topic (if we do, please link to it, and we can merge it), and I suspect it will now become quite important, so I've retitled this thread that was originally about Kodachrome 120 for general discussion of processing Kodachrome as B&W neg and made it a sticky.

    Anyone with some actual experience shooting Kodachrome as b/w neg? If my K64 didn't make it to Dwayne's in time, I might need to know!
     
  8. holmburgers

    holmburgers Member

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    ditto
     
  9. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    Hey, I've got a whole brick of 120 in the freezer. I'm just waiting for the opportunity to kidnap PE and tie him in the barn until he figures out how to do it as color reversal using two sticks.

    In the mean time, I'll bet DR5 knows how.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2010
  10. nickrapak

    nickrapak Member

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    The next two posts are information from Martin Baumgarten of Plattsburgh Photographic Services. It is intended to deal with cine film, but most of this applies to still film as well.
    [1 of 2]

     
  11. nickrapak

    nickrapak Member

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    [2 of 2]

    Read more: http://www.cinematography.com/index.php?showtopic=48841
     
  12. kristopher_lawrence

    kristopher_lawrence Member

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    What about TMAX direct positive outfit?

    Hi all,

    I was reading this thread, and I had an idea. Would a TMAX direct positive outfit work with Kodachrome? I guess there would be a need for testing different E.I. Did anyone tried it?

    That would be a nice opportunity since there will still be tons of the film available for very low prices from now.

    Also, how is that remjet backing removed? I guess that the best bet would be to do it before the processing to avoid contaminating the chemistry.

    Best,

    K.
     
  13. holmburgers

    holmburgers Member

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    Remjet is only a problem with movie film, so N/A.

    UPDATE: GUESS NOT! (see below)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 30, 2010
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  15. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Kodachrome film is one of the only still films that still has a rem-jet backing.

    PE
     
  16. Tony-S

    Tony-S Member

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    OK, so what's a suggested process for B&W negs from Kodachrome? I have a few rolls of 35mm and one 120 that I'd like to put to use.
     
  17. Nicholas Lindan

    Nicholas Lindan Advertiser Advertiser

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    A few things I have found:

    • Adding a bit of dishwashing detergent to the borax remjet bath makes the process much, much less messy. The detergent prevents the remjet from redepositing from the wash water back on to the film, sponge, hands and everything else. I found putting the film in a bucket with the borax & detergent for 10 minutes and giving it a swirl removed the backing cleanly with no muss, fuss or wiping.

    • Processing really old film as from the 70's results in black film. One roll came out completely opaque - couldn't even see the filament of a halogen lamp through it. The other had some very faint image in the black murk.
     
  18. bwfans

    bwfans Member

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    It seems Kodachrome processed by Rodinal standing developement is quite capable.

    I am looking for the suggestions on best time to remove the Ram-Jet layer. First in the whole process or the last in the whole process. I am told Lab removes this layer at first.

    How to prevent scratching film surface during the removing of remjet?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2011
  19. snapshot2000

    snapshot2000 Member

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    old Kodachrome processed as B&W

    About a year ago, I was poking around through my film stock in the freezer and found an old roll of Kodachrome 25 (K-14) that I exposed in 1986. It wasn't even in a canister, just a plastic bag. I remember it had sat around a drawer for a long time, and then spent a lot of time in the fridge before being thrown in the freezer.

    I tried it in Diafine for 4 /4 min with slight agitation every min. and was amazed at the beautiful negatives I got. The even yellow stain didn't seem to affect scanning (I added extra acetic acid to the fix to help reduce it, though I don't know if that helped).

    I did have trouble removing every last bit of the Remjet backing, which I did by laying the flm flat in a large sink and gently wiping the back with a sponge under running water.

    The scans from this 23+ year-old film had amazing tonality, maybe a little hard to see here on this particular subject. The grain was very sharp, which worked well with the architectural subject matter.

    Dan Murano
     

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  20. bwfans

    bwfans Member

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    Thanks for sharing Dan. This a great image. Diafine has so much good properties and I wonder what it cannot do.
     
  21. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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  22. DarkroomExperimente

    DarkroomExperimente Member

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    has anybody been doing this recently?

    I need to do this soon
     
  23. yurisrey

    yurisrey Member

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    our standard practice at work for checking sound sync on our 16mm camera at work is to run any old film we happen to have on hand in Dektol 1:10 "quick and dirty" process. On many occasions I have done this with Ektachrome. It comes out with a lot of awesome chunky grain and high contrast. I wonder how far of is Koda from Ekta?
     
  24. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

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    I've been shooting at box speed and developing in D-76 stock.

    D-76 stock 15mins@20c

    stop 30sec. indicator stop bath

    water rinse 1 min.

    Fix TF-4 three mins or normal fix in whichever brand you usually use.

    Wash in mixture of 1Tbsp Borax plus 1 Tbsp TSP per one liter water scrubbing with soft sponge until all remjet is cleared. Film may be soaked in this solution for one hour followed with clear water rinse. Repeat as many times as needed to remove remjet. You can prerinse with this solution until water runs clear then develope. You will still need to finish cleaning after fixing. Final rinse in photoflo or drying aid of choice.
     
  25. BradleyK

    BradleyK Subscriber

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    In the ongoing process (about 2 weeks thus far) of unpacking after a recent move, I came across four rolls of unshot KR64, vintage early 1990s(?). I realize that it can be processed, with some difficulty, as a black and white negative. So... what are my options? I have no idea as to the film's storage conditions - I found it mixed in with my office supplies. Any recommendations re ISO? I really would like to shoot and process the film for high contrast images - architectural abstracts, possibly. Is this possible? The effect I would like to try for is sort of one of minimum tones: little middle tones, just pure black and white. Any suggestions?
     
  26. John Shriver

    John Shriver Member

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    For very high contrast negatives, I'd recommend Kodak Technical Pan or it's predecessor Kodak High Contrast Copy in D-19. Both are essentially grainless. But neither is easy to find now. You won't get that sort of contrast out of Kodakchrome, especially since you won't be removing the "Cary Lea silver" yellow filter layer in normal B&W processing.