Kodachrome or Ektachrome for cross processing.

Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by Mike Kennedy, Sep 8, 2005.

  1. Mike Kennedy

    Mike Kennedy Member

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    A belated HAPPY ANNIVERSARY to Sean,APUG,and all the wonderful folks I have encountered through this remarkable meeting place. Even the non-analogers I have shown the site to are amazed by the depth of knowledge and incerdible "humanity" exibited on a universal scale by our members. ROCK ON!!!
    Since I was unable to shoot something "special" to mark the occasion I thought today I would try a bit of cross processing using my "new" Olympus XA-2. After digging through the freezer I discovered 2 ice coated boxes of slide film.A roll of Kodachrome 25 and one of Ektachrome 100. Just wondering which one would give me the best effect and how should I rate them as both are way past their expiration date.

    Thanks Much,
    Mike
     
  2. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Ektachrome. I don't know that you would get anything by cross-processing Kodachrome in C-41, though it can be processed as B&W neg (which would be a terrible waste of K-25, in my opinion!).
     
  3. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The ektachrome. Rate it as labeled, bracket toward over exposure. Remember that it can only handle 3-5 stops of information so don't expect there to be any or much highlight or shadow detail. If the film is EPP/EPN than it will suffer from blue/yellow cross over.

    If the film is really old, where the dmax has sliped a full stop or more, you can hammer it with light (2 stops of over exposure) and get interesting effects. This would require you to have two rolls, one for testing the other for real or to do a snip test.
     
  4. George Papantoniou

    George Papantoniou Member

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    I'm pretty confident the Kodachrome won't show anything interesting in C-41... Maybe some kind of monochrome, wrongly developed image...

    I underexpose EPP for cross-processing in C-41. It seems (to me) the negatives are easier to print (on an enlarger) like that. Of course, the shadow detail is inexistent.

    If you want shadow detail, follow the instructions in the previous posts. Then you'll get negs that are going to be somewhat harder to print (blocked highlights).
     
  5. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The bleach step of c41 will, if I understand the film correctly, remove any image on kodachrome.

    Denser crossed negs may be somewhat harder to print (longer and can exhibit some blooming where light meets dark), but far easer to colour correct. They also have great saturation. From my experience I have found that under exposure produces stronger colour casts and cross over, and 'correct' exposure to overexposure more saturation.

    If you push the film (around 2-stops) you can get a colour Kodalith like neg (that is all but impossible to cc) and if you pull it you can get a really saturated neg with some of the contrast controlled.

    Techniques I use with some success is to slightly over expose and under develop and or to be selective about what highlights are included in the frame. Shooting anything with a preponderance of sky will generally produce either silhouettes or a large swatch of white. I also do on camera cc when the film exhibits strong colour casts (e.g. a magenta filter for kodak's e100 films), but I wouldn't suggest this without first experimenting.
     
  6. Donald Qualls

    Donald Qualls Member

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    Above is correct -- Kodachrome has no dye couplers, dyes and couplers are provided in the three (!) color development stages, along with reversal exposures. Developing in normal B&W chemisty (and removing the remjet layer) will result in pretty ordinary B&W negatives with the colloidal silver yellow filter layer still intact. Developing in B&W reversal type first dev may remove the filter layer. Developing in C-41 or E-6 chemistry will bleach away any silver image without leaving dyes (due to lack of couplers), and leave the film blank.
     
  7. Mike Kennedy

    Mike Kennedy Member

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    Thanks all.

    I learn something new each time I post a question on the APUG site.
    Mike
     
  8. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    Ektachrome 200 exposed as 125/100 and coss processed works for me.
     
  9. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    All of the images in the New Orleans series I have on ebay were shot on e200. I used a 40cc magenta filter on camera and rated the film from 50-100.

    I think it is excellent film for crossprocessing.
     
  10. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

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    As a side note, if Mike wasn't aware, Kodachrome 25 has been discontinued. AFAIK, there's no current ISO 25 color film being made. I recently saw this eBay auction for five boxes of Kodachrome 25 and three boxes of Kodachrome 64, all expired but claimed to be stored frozen. It ended at $162.50. Subtracting out the street price of the Kodachrome 64 ($6.49 at B&H), that means the Kodachrome 25 sold for $28.61 per roll, plus shipping.

    All of which is just to elaborate on David's comment: Doing wacky experiments with Kodachrome 25 (even if they might work, which cross-processing as C-41 won't) is a waste! If you don't want it, sell it on eBay -- or better yet, give it to me! :wink:
     
  11. dmr

    dmr Member

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    On this, I'm mostly just curious, not that I want to try it or anything, but can you or anybody maybe give pointers to a good explanation on how Kodachrome is processed. I keep hearing veiled references to adding dyes and couplers, and multiple re-exposures with colored light, but I've never found anything authoritative and concise. TIA. :smile:
     
  12. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

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    Camera and Darkroom had a definitive article on Kodachrome Processing - at least the K14 process. Many steps and solutions - and processing at various temperatures in the process. Most of the chemistry could only be obtained in LARGE bulk packaging ~ 500 pounds or so.

    I've been as busy as I ever have been in recent memory lately. I'll try to find time to transcribe and post the recipe.
     
  13. dmr

    dmr Member

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    Thanks, Ed. I would appreciate that. :smile:
     
  14. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    For those interested, here is a thumbnail of Kodachrome processing:

    Rem-Jet removal
    Rinse
    First developer
    Wash
    Red Reexposure through the base
    Cyan color developer
    Wash
    Blue Reexposure through the emulsion side
    Yellow color developer
    Wash
    Chemical fog
    Magenta color developer
    Wash
    Bleach
    Wash
    Fix
    Wash
    Dry

    It takes over 1 hour IIRC, and the developers are very high pH and quite unstable. The process has to run 24/7 for all practical purposes to stay in control. And, since the couplers are in the developers, you can watch them turn cyan, yellow and magenta as they aerially oxidize.

    It can be done by hand in a small sink line dip and dunk. That is how small samples of Kodachrome are processed during the research and development cycle.

    FYI, in the 80s Kodak trade trialed a 400 speed Kodachrome that was beautiful, but no one was interested. So, it died before it was born. The last Kodak ads for Kodachrome were in the early 90s, as the market share had shrunk by then to the point where it was already dying before any d***tal came along.

    PE