Kodak AZO paper

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by pinholeboy, Nov 28, 2011.

  1. pinholeboy

    pinholeboy Subscriber

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    Hi,

    I have a question I was hoping that someone could help me with.
    I own a box of 11x14 Kodak AZO paper (F-0). The box is in good condition and unopened, holds 144 sheets.
    Can anyone give me an idea what this might be worth? Also how do I tell the age of the paper?

    Thanks for your help!

    Gordon


    IMG_8717.jpg IMG_8719.jpg
     
  2. jgjbowen

    jgjbowen Member

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    For someone who has some VERY contrasty 11x14 negatives it COULD be priceless. But as someone who would pay top dollar for a few boxes of 16x20 or 20x24 Rochester Grade 2 Azo, this grade 0 11x14 is worthless to me.

    My best guess on the age of the paper would be from the 40s or 50s.

    My suggestion would be to post it for sale on the Azo forum and see what develops (pun intended).

    Good Luck,
     
  3. pinholeboy

    pinholeboy Subscriber

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    John, thanks for your reply!

    Gordon
     
  4. holmburgers

    holmburgers Member

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    The most bewildering thought I'm having is... who would make a box of exactly 144 sheets? :sideways:
     
  5. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Long ago and far away, people use a measure called a dozen. A dozen dozen was one gross. This is 12 x 12 which equals 144. So, at the time that paper was packed 144 was "normal". From this POV, that package becomes historically important.

    PE
     
  6. holmburgers

    holmburgers Member

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    Ahhh! :wizard:
     
  7. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    If you had 12 fingers, you wouldn't have had to ask:whistling:
     
  8. tjaded

    tjaded Subscriber

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    So PE...how many millimeters in an Imperial gallon? HA HA. That makes sense though. It's funny how some things change over the years...number of exposures for a 35mm roll for example.
     
  9. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

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    Use it to print negatives that were on modern film bases, old nitrocellulose or even glass plates developerd to high negative densities.
    Old processes called for films to be developed to a higher than current contrast index suited for older historical process, such as cyanotype, argrotype, etc.

    It is not unusual to see old negs developed to maximum densities of 1.8 or even 2.1. To get a full range print you need grade 0, and some burning still.

    The nice thing with grade 0 is that it is much less likely to loose contrast over time, like grade 4 would, although since azo in silver chloride, and not bromide, I am not sure it looses contrast the same way as chlorobromide or bromide papers do.

    It can have fog. You may need to learn to supress it.

    Have fun playing. At worst it would be a great deal of fun doing photograms with, if notheing else.
     
  10. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    If you really want to get confused on old measurement systems get stuck in looking at old English systems for acres, townships, etc. Then throw in barns without realizing that barns was a joke among physicist decades later.

    A barn is microscopic. So you're looking at all these measurements that are the size of wheat fields and there's one that's the cross section of an atom.
     
  11. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    You guys forget "chains", "stones" and "furlongs" for starters.

    In school, we had to calculate the speed of light in furlongs per fortnight! :smile:

    Oh, and there is a French measurement that translates to "horse gas hours" which is probably like horsepower in Englis.

    PE
     
  12. holmburgers

    holmburgers Member

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    One hour of horse gas is probably one too many.
     
  13. Tim Boehm

    Tim Boehm Subscriber

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    1 MILLILITER equals .0022 of an imperial gallon

    SOURCE:
    François Cardarelli, P.hD.

    "Encyclopaedia of Scientific Units, Weights and Measures, Their SI Equivalences and Origins"

    published by Springer-Verlag, http://www.springeronline.com

    ISBN 1-85233-682-X

    The International System of Units, abbreviated and commonly known as the SI, is officially known as Le Système International d'Unités and is overseen by the Bureau International des Poinds et Mesures located near Paris, France. Their website is

    http://www.bipm.org

    and their mission, as quoted from that website, is to "provide the basis for a single, coherent

    system of measurements throughout the world, traceable to the International System of Units..."

    So, the SI can handle British Barns and any other thing you want to throw at it. :smile:
     
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  15. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    And all these things made perfectly good sense at the time they were the standard.
     
  16. tomalophicon

    tomalophicon Member

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    Let's take a moment to thank our French cousins for freeing us from the Imperial baloney we once relied on.
     
  17. tjaded

    tjaded Subscriber

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    I was asking about millimeters! My idea of humor...


     
  18. Tim Boehm

    Tim Boehm Subscriber

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    i see, that's actually funny. my mistake, but 1 milliliter is .00022 of an imperial gallon, not .0022.

    so there are approximately 4546.092 milliliters in an imperial gallon, just in case anyone really wants to know.
     
  19. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    great find gordon !

    i see you do pinhole work, this paper is very slow ( silver chloride used to be called "gaslight paper" by some )
    it requires like a 300W flood light and dense +contrasty film works the best, so using it in a pinhole camera might not be useful.

    if you have a box camera ... you could expose your film, and process it in dilute dektol
    for a little longer than you might normally ( if you ever normally processed film in it it used to be suggested 7 min / 1: 7 )
    to build up density and contrast ...
    cut your film down and make contact prints ...

    you might consider paper negatives make with a camera of some sort
    to make contact prints on your paper.

    i love making photograms on azo i have :smile:

    good luck ( and have fun )
    john

    ps.

    my car gets 40 rods to the hogshead ...
     
  20. Jim Noel

    Jim Noel Member

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    I don't remember exactly, but it seems to me Kodak began the move from packages of 12 and 144, to 10, 25, and 100 around 1950-1955. Agfa and others followed along soon after.
    I have always thought it ridiculous to sell sheet film in boxes of 25 which means one can load 12 holders and have a sheet left over in the box. Paper was boxed in the same quantities as film.
     
  21. mwdake

    mwdake Member

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    And, try the old English units for money used up until 1971, Pounds, Shillings and Pence.
    12 penny's in a Shilling, 20 Shillings in a Pound.
     
  22. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    I used to use the odd sheet as the crossover test sheet when changing batches!

    PE
     
  23. rmckinne

    rmckinne Subscriber

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    old Azo can surprise you

    I have a box of 5x7 Azo with an expiration date of 1941 and it prints perfectly. On the other hand, I have some 2003 Azo grade 3 that prints a little dirty, especially at the perimeter of the sheet. My theory is that the older the stuff is, the longer it lasts. However, Grade 0 would be pretty much useless. One would have to make some negs suited to it: develop in Dektol or D-19 until the neg is bullet proof. Then you might get something really spectacular on the Grade 0.
     
  24. tomalophicon

    tomalophicon Member

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    I have to print my Tri-x that I push to 1600 on grade 0 usually. I push a roll a month, or so.
     
  25. pinholeboy

    pinholeboy Subscriber

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    John,

    Wasn't planning on using it for pinhole. Actually I don't think that I am going to use it at all. For the type of photography I do I wasn't sure if I could appreciate it. I was thinking of selling it to someone who would make better use of it.

    Question for everyone, I know that a grade 1 would be better but would it be much better than a grade 0? Is it much more useful?

    Thanks for all your comments and feedback!

    Gordon
     
  26. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    IMHO the value is more historical than as a usable paper.

    PE