Kodak D-158 and D-173 for Velox

Kodak D-158 and D-173 for Velox

  1. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,569
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Michael R 1974 submitted a new resource:

    Kodak D-158 and D-173 for Velox - Kodak D-158 and D-173 for Velox

    Read more about this resource...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2016
  2. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,093
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    There are a few Kodak Ltd (UK) developers not included in similar Eastman Kodak publications or the same era, some sold in packaged form commercially. D72 wasn't available in the UK in1944 or when I first began serious photography in the late 1960's instead we had D163 in Europe as a Universal negative and paper developer.

    D158 Velox developer superseded the earlier Nepera-Velox developer which Koak published in 1905.


    The Nepera Velox formula - as published by Eastman Kodak in 1905 is:

    Hydroquinone 2 g
    Sodium Sulphite (anhyd) 7 g
    Sodium Carbonate (anhyd) 13g
    Metol 0.5 g
    Potassium Bromide 10% 40 drops
    Water to 300 ml
     
  3. Christopher Walrath

    Christopher Walrath Member

    Messages:
    7,114
    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2005
    Location:
    In a darkroo
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Do you have any experience with this developer, Ian? Or do you have any descriptions on how it acts on papers? Just curious and thanks.
     
  4. pdeeh

    pdeeh Member

    Messages:
    3,519
    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Location:
    UK
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The D-158 formula looks broadly similar to the (Defender/DuPont) 54-D formula , which I have taken to using for the small amount of basic printing I do. Although 54-D dilution is usually given as 1+2 rather than 1+1

    On the basic RC papers I use (MGIV, Kentmere VC, Fotospeed RCVC) 54-D produces a "blue" black that I find very pleasing.
     
  5. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,093
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    These are fairly basic print developers but Silver Chloride based Contact papers like Velox & Ilford Selo required much less Bromide in the developer. Used with a Bromide or Cloro-bromide paper these will give colder tones than a developer like D72/Dektol.
     
  6. Jim Noel

    Jim Noel Member

    Messages:
    2,159
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2005
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I still have some Velox. I usually develop it in D-72 which gives a distinct blue cast to the shadows.
     
  7. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,569
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    An interesting thing in this particular formulary I'm quoting from, is that D-72 is described as a rapid, high contrast developer for films and plates, without any reference to papers. At one time D-72 was intended (I think) as a "universal" developer for films and papers, and then later of course Dektol became known primarily as a standard paper developer, but I didn't realize there was a time (or place) when/where D-72 was listed as a film/plate developer without reference to paper. Perhaps some formulas were described differently by Kodak depending on whether the publication originated in the U.S. or U.K.?

    Another curious thing about the D-72 formula given in this publication is it differs slightly from the later versions I've seen (in Haist, Anchell, etc.). In this formulary booklet Metol is 3.1g (vs 3g) and bromide is 1.9g (vs 2g). Perhaps this is merely a matter of rounding and/or significant digits (the D-72 formula in Haist is in grams with no decimals). But it suggests Anchell's version (which shows precision to tenths of a gram) may not be precisely correct. Or maybe the formula simply changed slightly at some point.
     
  8. Tom1956

    Tom1956 Inactive

    Messages:
    2,057
    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Location:
    US
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Thread marked . TY, Michael R.
     
  9. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,093
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format

    Some Kodak formulae were rounded up/down to the nearest gram (or half gram) in some Kodak publications because few amateurs had scales capable of measuring fractions of a gram. Anchell's version is correct as is the Harrow Formulary they are the commercially made formula.

    D72 wasn't sold in the UK until quite late I can't remember when it was first available it was years before I heard of Dektol probably the mid 1980's, we had D163 instead which I remember using a few times in the late 1960's.

    If you look through the Harrow publication you'll see a few products not sold in the US like Kodinol the Kodak version of Rodinal, D163, I'm not sure if HDD is mentioned that early. There were slightly different traditions in photography in Europe to the US which had an effect on what products were sold.

    Ian
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 22, 2013
  10. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

    Messages:
    6,569
    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2010
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks for the additional info, Ian. Regarding the different traditions, it seems generally speaking the north American market moved over to fine grain/solvent formulas earlier than Europe. Apparently Kodak HDD was never even marketed in the U.S. This particular formulary includes D-163, D-159 "Kodurol" (Glycin)-Hydroquinone, and quite a few Pyro film developers. The only fine grain formulas listed are D-76, D-76d, and DK-20 (and DK-50 if we include that as a fine grain developer). This formulary (June 1944) would have been only slightly too early for D-23 and D-25. Interesting stuff to read.

    Also I hadn't heard "Dolmi" before (Kodak's word for Amidol).
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2013
  11. RidingWaves

    RidingWaves Member

    Messages:
    817
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2006
    Location:
    Hawaii
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Has anyone found a version of the Kodak Ektonal? Its MQ with sodium hydroxide for warm tones, no carbonate I think. I have a limited supply and thinking hard about trying to reverse engineer it but a starting point would be good. Its in two package, one is obviously sodium Hydroxide.
     
  12. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

    Messages:
    18,093
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    West Midland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    In general Kodak (and the US) actually lagged behind Europe where fine grain and extra/super fine grain developers were introduced much earlier. Hans Windisch published fine grain developers in 1938, Ilfords ID-44 was also pre WWII *and so Dk-20) and Johnsons Meritol based fine grain range had been available for a while. In the US it was Lowe and to a lesser extent Champlin who prompted research into fine grain developers.

    Kodak Ltd (UK) branded many products in the UKin the 30's & 40's, Kodesko, Kodatol (DK20) etc but seem to drop them after WWII. See page 3 of the 1944 Formulary.

    Ian