Kodak HIE developer choices

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Tammyk, Nov 4, 2004.

  1. Tammyk

    Tammyk Member

    Messages:
    114
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Location:
    TN, USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I just got back from looking at the Massive Dev. Chart for time and choices concerning the development of Kodaks HIE IR film.

    I'm wondering if I could ask you for a preference in development before I commit to too many mistakes.

    My intent is to use a deep red filter (29), and 35mm format. I have HC110, Rodinal, and DDX developers on hand- as well as a small amount of Technidol.

    Advice is greatly appreciated.
     
  2. Peter De Smidt

    Peter De Smidt Member

    Messages:
    1,064
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Location:
    Fond du Lac,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I would go for DDX, as that will minimize the grain. Mind you, there will still be a lot. Rodinal and HC110 will give significantly larger grain. Hence, you'll be able to make bigger enlargements with the DDX. Technidol wouldn't give enough contrast, and it's very expensive.

    When I used a lot of HIE, I found that I had to develop for significantly longer than Kodak recommended.

    Make sure do do some bracketing. I prefer by about 1/2 stop each way.

    It's a wonderful material. Have fun!
     
  3. modafoto

    modafoto Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,102
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2003
    Location:
    Ã…rhus, Denma
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Hi

    Although I am a firm believer in Rodinal I would not recommend it for HIE as it will result in too grainy negs that I do not like with IR films. I use Rodinal Special (Studional) which has nothing to do with Rodinal. It gives much more smooth look and is GREAT for IR (I have shot 4 rolls of IR, so my experience is not big).
    I would also recommend DD-X as mentioned above.

    Morten
     
  4. Tammyk

    Tammyk Member

    Messages:
    114
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Location:
    TN, USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Great! Now, maybe I just missed it, but I didn't see DDX listed with times on the chart. Would the normal 1:4 dil be applicable? I usually develop at 24C, but can adjust if it will give better results to do so.

    I almost feel like someone should hold me hand or something! I sure appreciate the quick replies!
     
  5. geraldatwork

    geraldatwork Member

    Messages:
    414
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2004
    Location:
    Hicksville,
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    I shot one roll about a year ago and was happy with the results with D-76 undiluted. But I have nothing to compare it to.
     
  6. Kathy Harcom

    Kathy Harcom Member

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format

    Hiya :smile:

    I use lots of HIE, it is my favourite film. I use D76/ID11 for 11 minutes at 20 degrees which produces wonderful negatives with little grain....always been delighted with the results.

    Best of luck, hope you enjoy!

    ~Kathy~
     
  7. J Pellegrino

    J Pellegrino Member

    Messages:
    7
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Location:
    Wilton, Conn
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I hope I am not too late to the party...

    HIE is my main and favorite film, and for years I processed it in either D76 straight or D76 1:1, and learned to live with the rather flat, low contrast negs.

    After my October trip to Utah, I decided to try T-Max developer, in the normal 1:4 dilution, for 8 mins at 68*F. All 28 rolls are fabulous! I've got tons of shadow detail AND highlight detail to play with when printing. I'll never go back to D76.

    Whatever you do, DO NOT follow Kodak's current instructions to process it in D76 for only 8.5 mins. That would be disastrous. I do not know what Kodak is thinking of...

    Good luck. I hope you learn to love HIE as much as I do.

    JP
     
  8. Tammyk

    Tammyk Member

    Messages:
    114
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Location:
    TN, USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    No, JP, you are not late. I haven't shot the roll yet.

    I really appreciate the feedback. My local shop only sells D76 in a powder to make up a gallon. So, I was rethinking having another gallon of stuff on the shelf. On the other hand, I may enjoy it so much that I'll blow through it in no time!

    Kathy, your IR work is amazing. Hoping that I will have some success as well.

    Thanks-
     
  9. donbga

    donbga Member

    Messages:
    2,084
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    I just thought I would mention that I've had great success with PMK pyro. Try 12.5 minutes at 77F. I normally use a #25 or #29 filter and my mid-day exposure is 1/125 @ f11. The attached photograph was made at this exposure and developed in PMK. Bracket around that setting -always bracket. Normally I will make at least 3 exposures, +- 1 stop or in some cases +- 1/2 stop going 1 stop over and under. Even though HIE is expensive it is 35 mm is realitively inexpensive compared to 70 mm or 4x5. SO bracket.

    Realistically I wouldn't expect a lot of success with your first few rolls. If you want to learn HIE buy a brick, 20 rolls. Also if you are in the northern lattitudes IR season is pretty much over unless you are working in the studio. If you expose enough eventually you will be able to pre-visualize most if not all of your shots.

    And one more note PMK will help hide the grain but expect grain with this film.

    Good luck,

    Don Bryant
     
  10. Tammyk

    Tammyk Member

    Messages:
    114
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Location:
    TN, USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Don,
    Thank you so much for your example. Beautiful. Yes, I'm aware that I'm losing daylight. I live in the SE, US. Our sunny, bright days are starting to fade...

    What do you rate the film at using these camera settings, if you don't mind? I've seen anywhere from 200 to 320.

    I have pyrocat- HD on the shelf also. And always plan to get more. I haven't tried PMK for anything. Is there a time difference, I wonder?

    No, I won't expect success my first try, but usually I like to dive right in and start the learn! All the upfront help here is just so nice!
     
  11. Robert Hall

    Robert Hall Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,047
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Location:
    Lehi, Utah
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Don,

    nice ir shot. Makes me want to go shoot more HIE.

    Tammy,

    I concur with Don on the pmk. I develop a little longer, but use a little cooler temp. It comes out in the wash. :wink:

    I would suggest not using your in-camera meter. It isn't calibrated for IR. Follow Don's suggestion: on a sunny day, through a red 25, f11 and 1/125s. Bracket slower if you feel you need to, like f11 and 1/60s, but it's generally spot on.

    Good luck!
     
  12. donbga

    donbga Member

    Messages:
    2,084
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    Tammy,

    I don't meter at all, I just shoot by eye, after using the film for a while you realize that there are about 5 different lighting situations so metering becomes needless. I have often thought of constructing a IR meter but never have.

    I think Pyro-Cat is radically different enough from PMK that I can't give you a direct conversion, I use Pyro-CAT almost exclusively now but I've not exposed any HIE in over 2 years. I would recommend the 1:2:100 dilution and reduce development by 15% from my PMK time. I would also recommend trying 2:2:100 dilution and see what that yields.

    One point I didn't make about using Pyro with HIE is that it pretty much eliminates bullet proof highlights. To get adequate exposure in deep shadows a healthy exposure is often needed and the pyro helps to tame the highlights in this case.

    I just wish Kodak still manufactured HIE in 4x5 and 8x10. Sigh!

    Don
     
  13. Tammyk

    Tammyk Member

    Messages:
    114
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Location:
    TN, USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have an old Kodak 2D. Yes, too bad no IR in 8x10. Can't imagine the cost of blowing through a box of that...:smile: (but what fun, I'm sure!!)

    Thanks for the tips!
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. Robert Hall

    Robert Hall Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,047
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Location:
    Lehi, Utah
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Don,

    How many pinholes would you like with your 8x10 hie? :wink:

    I shoot the Maco in 8x10 and 12x20. But I have to use the 89b filter and rate the film for 1/2 asa to get any shadow detail with the dark filter.

    The maco stuff is pricy too. $20 a sheet for 12x20.

    I also know Maco is working on yet another IR film to be out next year.

    Robert
     
  16. donbga

    donbga Member

    Messages:
    2,084
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    Robert,

    Pinholes on sheet film are easier to deal with than 35mm film. Yes?

    I've not tried the Maco sheet film, if they can produce something close to HIE I might be interested.

    Don
     
  17. Kathy Harcom

    Kathy Harcom Member

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hiya Tammyk

    Thank you so much! :smile: (I uploaded a few more pictures btw, all were using D76/ID11).

    It's such a magical film to work with I'm sure you will be excited by the results whichever developer you use. I guess to stick with one for a while is a good plan, that way you get to know both the film and develoer really well before branching out.

    You enjoy!!!

    ~Kathy~
     
  18. Kathy Harcom

    Kathy Harcom Member

    Messages:
    133
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Lovely picture Don!

    ~Kathy~
     
  19. Robert Hall

    Robert Hall Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,047
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Location:
    Lehi, Utah
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Don,

    I have issues with Maco on only one point. I need to use wooden film holders. The dark slides are ir tight, but the plastic around the holder isnt. Wood film holders work wonders.

    I also develop Maco in PMK with 2+4+100 (double the normal amount for 12 minutes at 24C.)

    I've had folks ask if my 6x7 negs were 4x5 regular film type negs. Low grain. It's panchromatic film, not ortho, so without a dark filter they looks like regular film images.

    Robert
     
  20. Helen B

    Helen B Member

    Messages:
    1,557
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    Location:
    Hell's Kitch
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Nobody has mentioned Diafine or, preferably, DiLuxol Vitesse for HIE, so I will. DiLuxol Vitesse is available again. I find that it gives lower graininess than D-76 with HIE and copes with a wider scene brightness range.

    With an 093 filter I set my TTL meter (M7) to 1250 or 1600 - but that setting is highly meter-dependent. I did go to all the bother of making an IR meter from a Pentax digi spotmeter, a piece of Melles Griot short-pass filter to cut off at 900 nm (03 SWP 622, not 035WP622 as printed in Photo Techniques Jan/Feb 2000) and a piece of Lee 87 to block the visible light (what a faff) but found that the TTL meter was good enough in daylight - in fact experience is good enough for 'standard' lighting situations. The IR meter is about 16x more sensitive to IR than an unmodified meter sitting behind an 093 filter because the unmodified meter should have an IR-blocking filter right in front of the cell.

    Best,
    Helen
     
  21. donbga

    donbga Member

    Messages:
    2,084
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
    Helen,

    I think I understood all of the techno stuff but what is a faff?

    Thanks,

    Don
     
  22. donbga

    donbga Member

    Messages:
    2,084
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2003
    Shooter:
    Large Format Pan
  23. Helen B

    Helen B Member

    Messages:
    1,557
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    Location:
    Hell's Kitch
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    'I think I understood all of the techno stuff but what is a faff?'

    Don,
    If you understood all the techno stuff you did better than I did.

    Ripping off the OED:
    faff v. & n. Brit. colloq.
    v.intr. (often foll. by about, around) fuss, dither.
    n. a fuss.
    [imitative]


    Best,
    Helen
     
  24. Tammyk

    Tammyk Member

    Messages:
    114
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Location:
    TN, USA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Gee, thanks everyone. Very nice discussion.

    Helen, if I may be ignorant? Are you refering to shooting HIE in medium format? Since I am new to this film completely, I find that I cannot locate HIE in 120, but there are other options (Konica, Maco...). Do you know of a place to get HIE in 120 format?

    Perhaps if I intend to shoot 120, I should try the other options as well. Although, I may also be limited with just using a deep red filter instead of a true IR filter. In otherwords, I won't really be getting the full effect?

    Well, since I am of a doer sort of tendency- I will just spring forward with my one little roll of 35mm, and just see where it leads me. (likely to several more rolls! :smile:)
     
  25. Helen B

    Helen B Member

    Messages:
    1,557
    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2004
    Location:
    Hell's Kitch
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    'Are you refering to shooting HIE in medium format?'

    I should have been clearer when I referred to an M7. Though I have a Mamiya 7, and sometimes use it with Maco 820 (there's a test shot in my gallery), in this case I was referring to the 'other M7': a Leica M7.

    Though I've never used it, you can get Kodak Aerographic IR film cut from 70 mm and respooled to 120 from www.davidromano.com

    Best,
    Helen
     
  26. Robert Hall

    Robert Hall Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,047
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Location:
    Lehi, Utah
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    I'm not sure if my last post made it, but David also has Balck and White IR in 120. It's pretty good film, I've used both color and the black and white.