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Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by traveller, Sep 14, 2010.
Good news that Portra NC and VC have been discontinued? Portra 400 VC was an incredible film; it was the only one of is type. What a terrible loss!
I wonder if the new Portra 400 is just 400 NC or VC repackaged, or if it is truly a new emulsion.
Judging by the Q&A this is a new film somewhere in between NC and VC in terms of saturation and the same as NC for contrast.
Thanks for pointing out the charts. Must be a new emulsion. Hardly worth the loss of the existing two, IMHO. They have condensed two films with a lot of character into a middle-of-the-road emulsion. Not that it is going to be a bad film. I don't think there is such a thing these days. Just sad to see the other two go, especially the VC.
Also, looks like it is available in pro packs only, up to 4x5 format, including 220.
This is all moving too quickly. I don't have enough money to stock up on everything I want to stock up on (400NC, TXP, Pro 800Z, T64, etc.).
It's good news that Kodak is continuing to do R&D on new films and continuing to release new films. 400PortraNC was an amazing film; Kodak set the bar awfully damn high. I can't believe that they can continue to raise that bar. Yet their track record is superb.
Good on Kodak. I look forward to what promises to be an excellent new film.
Portra 400NC and 400VC were already only available in pro-packs. So that's not a change with Portra 400.
Looks like I may have to dial down saturation of 400 sometimes when scanning. I really liked the laid-back natural look of 400NC.
Important thing is that they maintained the low contrast of 400NC, so it will have great dynamic range.
It will be interesting to see how long Fuji keeps selling 400H...
"Good news" is that offerings continue as 135, 120, 220 and 4x5. They have to keep on coating at least three master rolls to support all of these formats. It's more important than supporting two slightly different "versions" IMHO.
It's surprising that so many only slightly different emulsions have survived so far.
I guess that the same is going to happen for 160VC&NC soon, especially when there's Ektar for higher saturation.
If we compare to *******, there's still only one type of CCD's available with only one color rendition and contrast even in 2010 .
Also, maintaining the lower contrast but adding a little bit of saturation sounds quite fine to me!
Looking at the TechPub, the "Print Grain Index" of Portra400 falls exactly inbetween 160VC and 400NC, which sounds very promising. Sharpness seems to be the same as in the "old" emulsion.
The reduction to one single 400ASA Portra film makes sense in the actual market and shows real committement to the future of film. An alterantive strategy (which some people seem to favor) would be just to keep on producing dozens of existing types and formats without any investment, but then they would soon say "Oh, it is not economical anymore, so lets stop production at all".
Wasn't it only 2 years ago when new Portra 400VC-3 was introduced? This age-cycle in Kodak films starts to resemble digital camera replacement model.
Sorry, but can you give me any practical connection between "digital camera product lifecycle", and "colour print film product lifecycle"?
Products are always updated when they have new technology to make them better. Is this a problem for you and if it is, then why? Unlike camera models, you don't have to buy anything new to support the new features; you have to buy a new roll of film anyway when you have shot the entire roll. You'll get the better product automatically. Is this a problem for you?
I will miss it too. Anyway, the new film will be amazing, I'm sure.
Skipping marketing - bringing something new as often as possible - which is not practical to end user, I feel it's the learning curve, once the photographers settled on their tools, they have been obsoleted again.
I see a big problem here, it appears that the 400NC in 8x10 will be gone, the new Portra 400 is only introduced up to 4x5
This mean no 400 ISO color negative film in 8x10 this is really sad news.
You're right, and I'm not contradicting you. I only stated that the time gaps between revisions/replacements are getting shorter. And for someone working on long term projects probably too short.
Kodak's main principle has been to improve products in such a way that they need minimum or no learning. This has been case for Portra-2, Portra-3 that are sensitometrically perfectly the same, only sharpness and grain has improved a bit at a time which most if not all users find good. Even the transition from Vericolor to Portra was slight in the terms of learning.
So, the transition from NC&VC to new 400 is not anything seen in the 2000's. And it's probably done for economical reasons. (And still, the transition will probably be very minor. There's actually nothing special to "learn", since you can only go one way, start using the new product and I'm sure it's best used in the same way the older ones were.)
So, NOTHING is "obsoleted", and there is NO learning curve. You are simply wrong. I would like to ask you if you have really compared these products, or even looked at their datasheets of the Portra generations (1, 2, 3)? They simply provided the same great results without any need for any new learning! There's no "conspiracy" here and absolutely nothing to whine about! It's only a good thing that they get updated quickly and it's a sign of involvement.
Makes sense and shows how cine emulsion research links to current and future photo film options. It also amounts to a factual counter-argument to this recent meandering and sometimes nonsensical thread:
Yet more options in color printing, gone. Soon we will have only a couple, optimized-for-scanning color negative films, and one, optimized-for-digital-printing, RA-4 paper. After all, just do all your adjustments in photoshop in you don't like it.
Looks like this will be a middle of the road Portra, what I am wondering is if you can get it to act like VC or NC by moving a half stop either way. It is nice that they are bringing it out in several formats, it looks like they noticed that people are using formats other than 135.
This is rather different and is the start of a rationalisation in film products that we can expect from all companies across their film ranges.
Exactly where is the "Good News"??????
In the past few years:
UltraColor 400 and 160 were discontinued
Vivid Color 400 and 160 are to be discontinued
Ektar 100 which in no where near the speed of UltraColor and Vivid Color nor has the quality of either is all there is left if stronger color saturation is desired
So please point out exactly were the is any "Good News"?
People will see exactly want they want to see in this product consolidation announcement. But Kodak's long-term strategic goals have not changed. Nor will they by the time of the next consolidation announcement.
The dance continues...
If we see the same consolidation with the 160 Portras, I wonder if the future is gong to be Portra = neutral and Ektar = exaggerated. In which case, perhaps an Ektar 400 is a possibility.
Perhaps...but for now, I cannot see getting rid of two tasty films to make way for one that averages them as a good thing for photographic artistry.
None of this would be happening if there was a growing market for film, or possibly even a stable one, but there is not. One day, and I would guess that it will be a lot sooner than many of us expect, there is going to be no market for it that makes it financially worthy of continued production...and then it will simply be gone. So, teach people to use and love film. It needs new adopters, because we who already use it sure aren't doing the trick.
If they could only have one Portra emulsion in this speed, I would have preferred that they had kept the saturation of the NC film. Before we had a choice about saturation, and now we will have none. There is no way that this is good news.