Kodak Supra Endura Yellowed

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by lhalcong, Jun 9, 2013.

  1. lhalcong

    lhalcong Member

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    I have a box of Supra Endura F, and one E that were aledgedly kept frozen, but long expired. One worse than the other. Although I am able to manage the color filter pack and get the colors right, the paper shows it has yellowed. This can be easily noticed in highlights, whites and unexposed borders. What can I do ? I throw a bit more blue to counteract but it is still litle help.

    What else can I do ? any chemical process out there that could help .

    thx
     
  2. Prof_Pixel

    Prof_Pixel Member

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    This might also be retained blix/bleach. What chemistry are you using to process the paper?
     
  3. lhalcong

    lhalcong Member

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    uuhm ? never thought of this being a possibility. I didnt know this could happen. how to confirm and what to do if confirmed ?

    ---

    I am using Kodak Ektacolor RA-4 at Room Temperature. Mix only partial quantities to use. The chemicals are a few months past expiration date but this doesnt happen on Fuji fresh paper so I figured it was the expired Endura.
     
  4. stefan4u

    stefan4u Member

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    You can try to compensate the yellowing only within small limits…

    Try to reduce development time or temperature a bit, you propably have to expose the paper a pitch more.
    Still haven’t done that, but some benzoetriazole in the CD could be worth a try. I would start with about 100mg/Liter.
    If not handy, a small amount of sulphite(0.2g till0.5g) or NaCL in an similar amount could be used to reduce color coupling. But whatever you do, the contrast will suffer…
    Try with smaller fractions of your developer first, if restrained to much it will become useless other while…

    Regards Stefan
     
  5. newcan1

    newcan1 Subscriber

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    I've had luck with 20mg/L benzotriazole to eliminate base fog with Fuji Crystal Archive C paper, and I added 2ml/L hydrogen peroxide to bump the contrast up a bit. Results were excellent. But I had some Portra Endura where it didn't work so well. It's worth trying though.
     
  6. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    To answer both posts 2 and 3 about the blix, it would help to know the brand.

    Now, try this.

    Prewet, Develop, Stop (1 - 2% Acetic Acid), Blix 2' 100F, wash for up to 4 minutes at 100 F.

    This is a trial process to eliminate blix problems. If it works, then you can go back to the regular wash times, but I use up to 10 minutes at 85 F after a 100 F rinse.

    All blixes are NOT created equal and can result in yellow red stain (rust) due to iron retention.

    PE
     
  7. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

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    Where did you get the Paper?
     
  8. lhalcong

    lhalcong Member

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    eBay.
     
  9. lhalcong

    lhalcong Member

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    It is Kodak Ektacolor RA Bleach-Fix , I process everything at room temperature. Now I also wash at room temperature for about 5min only.
     
  10. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

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    Do you remember the seller?

    I have some in storage and some I ran awile back that showed a bit of yellow but I wrote it off to tungsten light that I had to shoot under.
     
  11. lhalcong

    lhalcong Member

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    Bruce, the vendor was: getdoriginal. he still has more listed . description claims to have frozen since manufactured date. who knows.?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 10, 2013
  12. pentaxpete

    pentaxpete Subscriber

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    I have the SAME problem -- used to get it badly on the older 'EP2 'paper but now I have it on some fridge-stored RA4 paper as well !
     
  13. David Lyga

    David Lyga Subscriber

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    see below
     
  14. David Lyga

    David Lyga Subscriber

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    This is an example of what I have long complained of. It is, indeed, a yellowing of the base and cannot be corrected unless you try to correct it somewhat with restrainer (benzotriazole, perhaps). Even then, it is corrected only somewhat. And, let's face it, the truncated development necessary for development without base density will possibly compromise the blacks and turn them into blue-blacks. How I do wish that there was a full remedy that we have for B&W paper whereby we can use Farmer's Reducer after the fix to 'bring back' the pure whites that make the print outstanding.

    I did not try PE's offering but I have a feeling that this problem is NOT with the blix (I could well be wrong, though). The most frustrating problem with color paper has ALWAYS been the inability to produce absolutely pure whites unless the paper is really new. And, yes, like the OP, I also tried freezing paper (at great cost to my ability to store food) only to find out that this 'solution' was not really a solution. This slow deterioration is fully correctable with B&W paper until the B&W paper gets considerably fogged. That luxury does not exist with color paper and you cannot simply change filtration because you NEED that pure white in so many scenes. This is the MAIN reason that I limit my color work. VERY annoying. The 'coin' test is best to determine the extent of the fog: simple hold down a coin, FIRMLY, on the paper under full room light and then process. - David Lyga
     
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  15. newcan1

    newcan1 Subscriber

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    Again, I have had great results with benzotriazole removing yellow for from Crystal Archive C, but not Kodak paper. In the world of black and white, up to 2g/L potassium bromide was also suggested. Would this work with color paper, or would it just screw up the colors? I have some Portra paper that I would love to be able to use - I love its contrast profile, but it has a slight yellow green fog.
     
  16. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Dont use bromide!

    Fix a small piece of paper right out of the box. See if it is yellow. If it is, then the support has yellowed and Kodak should know as this should not happen with Endura.

    Process a tiny piece in a B&W process and compare with the above, if the above is OK. Both should be white. If not, and the Endura is gray, a layer is fogged somehow by bad keeping or low level light exposure. BTAZ might help but at very low levels. PMT may help as well. Both cause speed loss and may cause crossover.

    If the paper passes both of those tests, then the process is somehow at fault as the paper is fog free.

    PE
     
  17. frotog

    frotog Member

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    Supra Endura was discontinued years ago. Any remaining stock will surely be fogged from age, no matter how it has been kept. This is a shame since the current digitally optimized ra-4 papers have nowhere near the accuracy of color rendition that the old enduras had.
     
  18. EdSawyer

    EdSawyer Member

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    Supra Endura was current in cut sheets up until a couple years ago, and there's plenty that isn't age-fogged. The base does tend to yellow but it takes years, in my experience. Anything within the last 2-3 years should be fine. I have cut-sheet supra endura with 2012 expiration dates, I believe.