Kodak TMax dev availability? How to use TMax RS?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by GarageBoy, Apr 14, 2013.

  1. GarageBoy

    GarageBoy Member

    Messages:
    580
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
    Shooter:
    35mm
    So after visiting Adorama and B&H, found out that neither had TMax developer in stock. Is it still being made/packaged?

    So I bought RS instead and realized I have to mix it all at once. Is there a way to mix A and B one shot? Thanks
     
  2. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,206
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Location:
    Atlanta GA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yes. Just dump all of the little bottle of B solution into the big bottle of A solution and mix. Dilute for use one shot as usual. Many of us have been doing this since it came out with no problems at all.
     
  3. GarageBoy

    GarageBoy Member

    Messages:
    580
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
    Shooter:
    35mm
    So A and B same bottle, then 1+4? Do I risk longevity issues doing it as so? Thanks
     
  4. Alan W

    Alan W Subscriber

    Messages:
    431
    Joined:
    May 16, 2009
    Location:
    Tennessee
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
  5. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,206
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Location:
    Atlanta GA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    No. That was my concern at first too. There was a thread somewhere on this, maybe LFPF, but IIRC the gist was that the parts weren't separated for longevity but for ease of replenishment. I don't recall the details, but I've kept a bottle combined for more than a year and it still worked fine (squeeze the air out before capping.)

    I like to dilute more than 1+4 but that's a matter of taste. Some people use 1+6 or even 1+9. I don't like the midtones with 1+9. I like 1+6 fine but have tweaked mine to 1+5. YMMV of course.
     
  6. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,206
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Location:
    Atlanta GA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Oh yes, far be it from me to disagree with someone like Sexton, but I just haven't had that experience with D76 increasing in activity, at least not recently (I don't remember about 1987 when that was written.) It seems to be well buffered, or otherwise adjusted to prevent this problem these days. Film I've developed in D76 stored for a year in tightly capped bottles looks just like film developed in fresh D76 to me.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 14, 2013
  7. Truzi

    Truzi Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,614
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'd wondered about the little packet as well, but searching the internet did not turn up much info. I found only one or two references where people did not use the packet, and reported no problems.

    What I don't understand is, considering the packet is supposed to be added to the full concentrate when first mixing, why would it be separated in the first place? Could it be to "season" the developer? If so, is there a reason that it would not come pre-seasoned (perhaps time-related degradation)?
     
  8. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,206
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Location:
    Atlanta GA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I know I read an explanation, I think on LFPF, and it made sense at the time, but I don't recall what it was. If I get time I'll try searching over there and see what I can find.
     
  9. Truzi

    Truzi Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,614
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The bottle of TMAX RS I have is from a camera shop that had closed, so I got a good price.

    I had resolved to not add the packet, but if something definitive turns up before I start my testing, I will use it. I will continue to search as well.
    From what I've read, the concentrate is quite long-lasting - I just need to know if the same is true of RS after the packet is added. Mixing as needed sounds like a good route for me to take, considering my low-volume of B&W film.

    I'm slowly acquiring film and chemicals to try some things out in 35mm, so I've got some time. A recent Bronica acquisition has slowed me down a bit :smile:.
     
  10. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser

    Messages:
    19,113
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Location:
    local
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    developer is cheap, time and effort exposing film can be priceless ... seeing time doesn't repeat itself ...
    why risk ruining your film ...

    if the developer consists of part a and part b and you don't plan on using part b ?
    why use the developer at all ?

    its like using xtol, but not mixing the 2 pouches together ..

    don't forget if you poke a hole into the little pouch and only use a little at a time
    because you don't want to risk the long life of the developer ( if mixed together )
    you will probably kill the small pouch between development sessions ...
     
  11. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

    Messages:
    15,220
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  12. Truzi

    Truzi Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,614
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Because I got it cheap with a bunch of stuff when a camera store closed :smile:

    Seriously, though, it is a very small additive and I cannot find what it is for. While many attest to the longevity of TMAX mixed as needed, I've found few with the equivalent information for the RS version (after adding the packet, but not working solution).

    I think the Kodak data is for working solution and unused concentrate. I don't think it includes dipping into the concentrate as needed, let alone with the packet added to the RS yet not a working solution. I could be wrong; been reading too many PDFs lately.

    I doubt the B packet makes the difference between regular TMAX and RS, but one does wonder. That is why I've been searching for information on it. One can assume it is necessary or not - both are just assumptions.

    For my purposes at the moment, however, I will be testing/comparing developers with a great deal of identically exposed rolls of film - all will be quite boring. So I might as well mix it - but then I'll not know what happens if I don't.

    On second thought, since I'm wasting a bunch of film and chemicals to satisfy my own curiosity, I suppose I can wast 6 more rolls and divide the RS into "with B" and with "without B."
     
  13. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

    Messages:
    15,220
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    BC, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The RS version is designed to permit use in a replenishment regime, and the non-RS version isn't.

    The non-RS version has problems with dichroic fog when used with sheet film, and Kodak recommends against using it with sheet film. The RS version is recommended for use with sheet film.

    The data sheet is fairly informative:

    "T-MAX Developer is intended for use in unreplenished systems. For replenished systems, use T-MAX RS Developer and Replenisher. T-MAX RS Developer and Replenisher is a hydroquinone-based, two-part developer specially formulated for replenished systems, but you can also use it in unreplenished systems.
    T-MAX Developer is available as a one-part concentrate in sizes to make one gallon and five gallons of working solution. You can easily mix smaller volumes by mixing one part of the concentrate with four parts water. T-MAX RS Developer and Replenisher is available in convenient sizes to make one gallon and ten gallons of solution; use this solution as a working-tank solution or a replenisher. The ten-gallon size consists of two separate units, each to make five gallons of solution."
     
  14. Truzi

    Truzi Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,614
    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2012
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    In the areas I am knowledgeable, I have no problem going against some manufacturer recommendations because I know enough about it to do so safely and achieve the purpose I want (and am willing to suffer the consequences).
    I'm trying to get there in this area, though chemistry is one of my weak suits in general, let alone how it applies to absolutely anything in the real world.

    (In my last post I said "unused" concentrate, I meant "unopened." Sorry, I am usually more precise than this when communicating via writing. In person, not so much :smile:.)
     
  15. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,206
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2011
    Location:
    Atlanta GA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Many people including John Sexton have been using it this way since it came out. I use T-Max RS one shot because I use it with sheet film, because I think the results are often subtly superior to the non-RS even without sheet film (but have trouble telling you why) and because I'm used to it. This works.

    I found that thread for you. Reminds me that I was doing this the hard way too until I read this - and this simplified my life.

    http://www.largeformatphotography.i...73585-TMax-RS-developer-as-quot-one-shot-quot

    Or if you aren't a member and don't want to join, Google is your friend:

    http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-73585.html
     
  16. GarageBoy

    GarageBoy Member

    Messages:
    580
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2012
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks so much. I'll just mix and use it up and buy more if it goes bad
     
  17. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser

    Messages:
    19,113
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2003
    Location:
    local
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    years ago on the advice of someone at kodak ( who must have mixed up the differences between rs version and the non rs version )
    i used the non rs version with sheet film.
    my tests came out fine, so i did a bunch of film ( 4x5 ) with it for a job, and it all ended up with dichroic fog.
    i won't use the developer again ...

    THEN i was told to throw away all my film because it was no good ...

    i spoke to paul krot, the founder of sprint systems of photography, and he helped me save my film
    using farmer's reducer. if i am to use a off the shelf developer, i'd use sprint any day of the week ...

    best of luck with your developer !