Kodak XTOL 5L packages- 5L of water or 5L of water+powder or doesn't matter?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by GarageBoy, May 12, 2014.

  1. GarageBoy

    GarageBoy Member

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    So I noticed on the D76 packets, it's powder to some water, and then top off to 1L or 1 Gal of solution. I noticed some more vague language on the XTOL packet. Am I supposed to add 5L of water to the packet's contents, or is the total volume of the packet + volume of water supposed to be 5L, or am I just splitting hairs?
     
  2. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    Same principal for XTOL (ie start with 75-80% of the final volume and then top off to the final volume). In the case of XTOL, start with 3.8-4l water, completely dissolve the contents of part A, then completely dissolve the contents of part B, then add water to make 5l.

    This is pretty clear on the package, but if you want more detail, the mixing instructions are on the first page of the technical publication:

    http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j109/j109.pdf
     
  3. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Yes, final volume is 5 liters, although I think you mix the powder into 4 liters of water. The powders will increase the volume to about 4.2 liters. Then you top up with water to make it 5 liters.
     
  4. Axle

    Axle Member

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  5. Ko.Fe.

    Ko.Fe. Member

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    Take it easy :smile:
    I use one gallon left over plastic containers from household chemicals.
    Fill it to have some space for two powders and mixing. Once it is all dissolved, add to the top.
     
  6. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    How do you fit 5 liters into a gallon container?
     
  7. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Maybe it is an old Canadian container (we used to use imperial gallons - 160 imperial ounces - just slightly smaller than 5 litres).

    IIRC, you can dissolve the X-Tol powders in 4 litres, if you are willing to use slightly stronger developer.
     
  8. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Seems it would be easier to just use liter containers, since the final mixed volume is 5 liters. When I mix Xtol I put 2 liters in an accordion bottle to replenish my working solution, 1 liter in a 1 liter bottle, and the remaining 2 liters in a 2 liter bottle. Makes an even 5 liters.
     
  9. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    You need a larger container to actually do the mixing. Some will use a pail, while others prefer to mix in the container used for storage.

    I'm like you Thomas, I would choose to store the mixed solution in smaller containers, although there is a store nearby that sells 4 litre mylar bags for wine that look very interesting ....
     
  10. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    I hear good things about the wine bladders.

    To mix the chemistry I use a stainless steel gigantic cooking pot. I measure 4 liters of water at the correct temperature and pour it in.
    Mix in the powders using a stainless steel stirrer.
    Pour it back into a big graduate that can measure 5 liters, and top it up with water to the correct volume.
    Distribute into smaller bottles.

    I've always mixed my chemicals according to the pictures on the Kodak photo chemistry pouches, which show big open vessels into which you pour water and dry components to mix.
    If I need to maintain higher temperature, like with mixing D76 or mixing/using C41, I just put the stainless pot on top of my heating plate, and it works for that purpose also. It's a good catch all solution for me.
     
  11. GarageBoy

    GarageBoy Member

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    The issue is, where do I get a 5L graduate? Is filling a container with 5L of water and marking off the line precise enough?
     
  12. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    Speaking of which, but slightly off topic, it seems Dektol is no longer available in 1 liter packets. It seems to have coincided with the change in manufacturer. The powdered Kodak chems (as well as the new liquid packages of HC-110 etc from Tetenal which have been discussed in other threads) are in packages made out of a different material - it feels more crinkly. Who cares. But now Dektol is only available in the 5 liter packs, which is a real pain. For now, D-76 seems to still be available in 1 liter packs but for how long?
     
  13. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    Try clicking this link: Link
     
  14. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    I have always found it to be so. Just make sure the container is on a level surface. Once the line is marked then you are done.

    pentaxuser
     
  15. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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  16. Jerevan

    Jerevan Subscriber

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    I just mix it per the instructions on the package, in a red bucket. It needs a good bit of stirring to get all the powder into the solution. After it is finished, I pour it in 1 litre glass bottles. It lasts at least 6 months, but I have been lucky with 8 months too.
     
  17. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    There is really no need to be THAT accurate....

    I have a plastic tub with marks (that I put on) at 1 gallon and 5 liter. I put in something like 4 liters of water. Mix in XTOL powder as instruction says, then top it off to 5 liter mark with additional water. My tub came from a local grocery store. I think it was originally meant to be a container for cereal.

    It really does not make any difference if you have 4.8 liter or 5.2 liter.
     
  18. Ko.Fe.

    Ko.Fe. Member

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    For example, I have "one gallon" container from swimming pool treatment chemical. Same gallon as in USA, BTW.
    To be exact, it is one gallon of liquid inside of the plastic container.
    So, it is one gallon inside and a lot of empty space left on the top of the boutle.
    After getting this container empty, I measured it filled in up to the top. It was something like 4.7 liters.
    I went through dozens of meters (hundreds of feets) of different films with it. No problems.
     
  19. craigclu

    craigclu Subscriber

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    Here's what works for me... Mix in a 1 gallon thumb hole glass jug by gently rolling the capped bottle. The 5L chemistry will dissolve in the 1 gallon of water and this method will minimize aeration. I then save to my smaller bottles and use the attached grid for my dilutions.

    It may even extend the life at this elevated concentration but I haven't checked or tested vs standard stock solution. I found a bottle over one year old that was forgotten and it gave me normal densities on my densitometer.
     

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  20. jerrybro

    jerrybro Subscriber

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    I got a big graduate/bucket at the local restaurant supply.
     
  21. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    hi garageboy
    i mix all my developers &c in a 5gallon bucket purchased for a few dollars at home despot .. it makes mixing chemistry easy
    i don't bother with the lid.
     
  22. GarageBoy

    GarageBoy Member

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    Thanks
    I'll mark off a jug and see how it goes
    I was just worried about the precision needed
     
  23. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Absolute precision isn't as important as consistency.