Kodak's E6 first developer starter... does anybody have formula?

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by anikin, Dec 18, 2013.

  1. anikin

    anikin Subscriber

    Messages:
    843
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Location:
    Capital of O
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The first developer in my E-6 kit has gone bad - there are some crystals floating on the bottom. I just ordered some replenisher, but the starter is out of stock at unique photo. Would that be a reasonable approximation to just use some 5% acetic acid with 15% sodium bromide, and then adjust based on the results? I got these numbers from the MSDS, which sounds reasonable to adjust Ph and add some restrainer. The MSDS also mentions potassium iodide, but less than 1%, so I don't feel very confident of how much to use...
    Any suggestions?

    Eugene.
     
  2. BMbikerider

    BMbikerider Member

    Messages:
    771
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2012
    Location:
    County Durha
    Shooter:
    35mm
    If there only a few crystals at the bottom of the bottle, it may be that the solution has been left where it can get too cold. Try warming the bottle (not too hot) then shaking it to see if the crystals re-dissolve. Even if they don't. if there are only a few crystals I doubt if it makes any difference to the working of the starter.

    I had a similar problem with working solution RA4 developer replenisher with crystals forming (Actually they were very attractive shapes). I just poured the whole bottle (100cc) into the Nova processor and it made not the slightest difference.
     
  3. kb3lms

    kb3lms Subscriber

    Messages:
    849
    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2006
    Location:
    Reading, PA
    Shooter:
    35mm
    You can generally get away without using the starter at all. All it does is to make new developer act more like developer that has been replenished for some time in a production lab environment for more consistent results. Without the starter, your new developer will just be a little "stronger."

    I would agree that a few crystal on the bottom might just redissolve or not make any difference at all. Despite what we hear about color processes photochemistry is pretty tolerant.
     
  4. anikin

    anikin Subscriber

    Messages:
    843
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Location:
    Capital of O
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Heating and shaking it was the first thing I tried :D. No use. The crystals appear to be quite stubborn and refuse to redissolve. Also, this is E6, and not RA4, first developer is quite critical for a good color, and I know for a fact it's no good - I have some badly processed film to prove it :sad:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2013
  5. anikin

    anikin Subscriber

    Messages:
    843
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Location:
    Capital of O
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    No, this is for slides not paper. The first developer is very critical! Without starter it is too hot. I need to drop pH and add some restrainer. The question is how much? Any chemists around?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2013
  6. RPC

    RPC Member

    Messages:
    572
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I am not a chemist and don't have a starter formula but I am throwing this out there for whatever it is worth. I have some E-6 chemistry formulas (although I don't do E-6) and the first developer formula lists 2 grams of potassium bromide, 5ml of 0.1% potassium iodide solution (per liter) and a pH of 9.8. I have no idea what all is in the starter but lacking any other help you could use this info to test and experiment. The replenisher's mixing instructions may also indicate you dilute with water to make a working solution.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 19, 2013
  7. anikin

    anikin Subscriber

    Messages:
    843
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2009
    Location:
    Capital of O
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thank you RPC! This gives me a ratio of ions. I can work with that. I assume these numbers are for a stock solution. Do you have a number for dilution rate of the WS?

    I guess it's time for me to buy a pH meter....

    Eugene.
     
  8. RPC

    RPC Member

    Messages:
    572
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The numbers are for a working solution. By replenisher I meant your replenisher would be diluted, but if you have used it before you would already know that.
     
  9. Rudeofus

    Rudeofus Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,397
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    stefan4u posted an E6 recipe a while back, and I can confirm that it gives very nice results. You may assume that replenisher contains little to no restrainer (which means you have to , and you can pH adjust your working solution to match the target pH. You may also have to dilute your replenisher to match the concentration of normal working solution.