Lens/shutter question. Please help.

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by thomasbruce, Nov 10, 2013.

  1. thomasbruce

    thomasbruce Member

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    I bought a Shneider Kreuznach 90mm f6.8 angulon from ebay to use with a home build 6x12 camera. The shutter was according to the seller recently CLA'ed. The shutter semester to work fine, but when I push the sutter release lever i hevar a small click sound but nothings happening and I have to tap/push shutter crank lever to engage the shutter. This is The case on all speeds except 1/500s wich is the fastest shutter speed. Is there something I'm doing wrong or do I need to get it fixed? Is this something I can fix myself? I live in Norway and I think I have to send it abroad to get it fixed and I really don't want to spend a lot of money on that if I can fix it myself :smile:

    Hope someone can help me!

    Thomas


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
     
  2. j-dogg

    j-dogg Subscriber

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    sounds like the shutter could use a good cleaning, I have a Deckel-Compur from the 20's that does this at 1-second and 1/2 second, usually the slower speeds go first. Ironically enough, it used to do this at 1/5th and 1/10th until I dropped it on concrete on accident now I got two more shutter speeds that are functional LOL

    What shutter are you using? Don't throw it on the ground please :laugh: it probably just needs to be opened up and cleaned with isopropyl alcohol but check if its safe for that shutter first since it can damage some very old shutters if it gets on the aperture blades and they are not made of metal
     
  3. shutterfinger

    shutterfinger Subscriber

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    There are a number of things that can cause the problem you are having including but not limited to too much oil or grease used in the supposed CLA, misalignment of components during reassembly, the face plate being pushed in slightly after being bumped in shipping, or the shutter was not cleaned as stated but looking at the shutter diagram the most likely cause is the retainer ring being over tightened.

    The lens is in a Synchro Compur shutter, http://benoit.suaudeau.perso.neuf.fr/manuels_rep/obturateurs/compur-repair/01-03.html shows the 90mm f8 in shutter breakdown CN1110-000 which is the first shutter in Section 4, you have to use the 3rd button from the left to step through the pages. Remove lock screw 538, turn retainer ring 547 counterclockwise (anticlockwise) until the next screw hole on the face plate 540 lines up with the retainer ring then reinstall lock screw 538 and test the shutter. There are 3 screw indentations on the retainer ring, any one of them can be the next screw hole in alignment. Check the shutter at the 1 second setting. The speed should be correct without the speed dial having excessive play or too easy to turn.
     
  4. dehk

    dehk Member

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    I never trust the sellers words on ebay. Shutter needs to be CLA by someone who knows what they're doing, from the sound of it it will work just fine after a proper cleaning.
     
  5. thomasbruce

    thomasbruce Member

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    Thanks for helping me.


    The shutter is a «Synchro Compur-P» With flash setting «X and M» with shutter speeds B and 1-1/500s. The shutter speed selection ring is easy to move until you try to set it to 500. It then becomes a bit hard to push. The same goes when you try to push the shutter crank lever. It’s easy to crank at all speeds except at 500 when it becomes pretty hard to push the crank.

    Pictures from ebay listing (click to see large version):
    angulonfront.jpg angulonrear.jpg


    I tried the shutter one more time before posting this post and it actually worked a couple of times but then reverted back to the issue I stated tin my first post :sad:


    «shutter finger» I don’t think that is the shutter i have. Se pictures above. But do you think the advice you gave still applies to my type of shutter. Is there a guide for that one as well or is it to old? I tried to google my problem but could not find any answers. I really hope this is a relatively easy fix that I can mange to do myself (fingers crossed)


    Again many thanks for helping me!!


    Thomas
     
  6. shutterfinger

    shutterfinger Subscriber

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    The lens you have is in shutter CN-1210-051. The single page for it is a further in the manual. It is a single page covering the speed dial and aperture lever assemblies. All other repairs, adjustment, lubrication is covered by the CN-1110-000 as the CN-1210-051 is a variation of the CN-1110-000. Your M-X will not have the self timer delay of the M-X-V version. If you click on the Compur Repair Manual at the top of the link I previously posted it will open to a page that has each section sub linked making it easier to find pages you need. Near the end of section 3 Tables of camera/lens/shutter/mount is where you will find your shutter listed under Schnider lens if you want to verify this. Compur only made a few shutters and adapted them to many applications.

    The retainer ring set screw is close to the size of an eyeglass frame screw so don't loose it when removing it. To get access to the retainer unscrew the front lens element.

    A leaf shutter blades and operator ring float in the shutter housing. Setting the shutter only puts pressure on the main spring and positions the release lever so that it will operate the lockout for the shutter blade operator. The operator has a moderately weak spring that will throw the blades wide open with nothing obstructing it. The main setting spring will force the blades closed quickly if nothing restrains it. The delay gearing regulates the closing by preventing the main setting spring tension being applied to the blade operator for the marked speed. The fastest this works is 1/125 second. To obtain higher speeds a booster spring is added to the mechanism and is compressed when the speed dial is turned to speeds above 1/125 with the top shutter speed compressing the booster spring to its maximum. This is why a shutter speed dial gets harder to turn at the fastest speed. Normal operation.

    Many times after assembling a shutter with this type of front plate retainer system and verifying the shutters operation the retainer ring has to be loosened after the shutter has sat idle for a day or two. The retainer ring will be in near alignment at one of the other screw positions so only back it off enough for the next possible position to come into alignment. Continue until the shutter operates correctly consistently. Some shutters run slow if the retainer ring is over tightened. A 6° turn (1 minute on a clock face) can make the difference between working and failing.
     
  7. thomasbruce

    thomasbruce Member

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    I feel pretty dumb at the moment. I can't seem to find the screw you are talking about. I tried to look at the manual you posted but I can't find any similar ring that can be the retainer. I don't want to do anything do destroy the shutter so I thought it best to ask for some more help. Here are some images from my shutter after I removed the front lens element:

    bilde 1.JPG bilde 4.JPG

    As you se in the photos. There doesn't seem to be a screw for the retainer ring :sad:

    Thanks

    Thomas
     
  8. shutterfinger

    shutterfinger Subscriber

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    That's cause you have the earlier version of the shutter possibly late 1940's to early 1950's vintage.
    The face plate is retained by the circular device with two small holes and a flat edge in it just below the index marker. Turn the retainer until the flat is against the center of the shutter then turn the faceplate counter clockwise until the ears on it align with the slots in the center of the shutter housing then lift the plate straight up. Do not remove the speed ring or hold the shutter by it. There are several pins and levers that must fit into slots in the speed dial which can be confusing for an inexperienced person. Just turn the face plate to the remove position and check the shutter operation. The face plate should turn easily. If the shutter works correctly with the face plate loose or if the face plate is difficult to turn then something is bent. A .001 bend on the speed dial can affect shutter operation. Everything is a snug, machined fit with no play so it is easy to slightly bend the speed dial during assembly.

    The shutter will be very similar to the manual reference one with only minor differences so it can be used as a guide for parts positioning and adjustments.
    I'll leave it to you to decide whether to proceed, return, or take it to a repair shop.
     
  9. edp

    edp Member

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    This is normal. There is an extra-strong spring that engages for the fastest speed, and that's what you're pushing against. Don't adjust the speed when the shutter is cocked, especially not to 500.
     
  10. Kawaiithulhu

    Kawaiithulhu Subscriber

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    I'm going to re-quote that for emphasis. This is one of those shutters that really acts badly if you cock it and try and reset the speed, and if you cock it at a lower speed and force it up to 500 I read that you can potentially break it.

    I also have one of these. It has no T setting for ground glass focusing but right next to the speed indicator arrow is a little button you can pivot down. Set up your speed and cock the shutter, push this down and the activate the shutter... it stays open for focusing! Cock again and it releases. You don't have to reset your speed to B and use a locking cable for focusing all the time with this feature.